#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 31 2025

01:20 AM Deejay: moin
04:50 AM lcnc-relay: <.gdth@> Does anyone by chance have the software ready to create a custom bitfile for the 6i25 ? i need a 7i77 on P3 and chinese bob on P2.
05:11 AM Tom_L: morning
05:42 AM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> hello
06:02 AM JT-Mobile: that firmware is already there, use the mesa configuration tool
06:02 AM JT-Mobile: 5i25_7i77_5abobd.bit
07:33 AM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> no 48v psu 🙁
07:33 AM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> i can put 2 in series
07:38 AM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> You can, just be sure how / where you are grounding
07:39 AM lcnc-relay: <.gdth@> JT-Mobile: thanks, i will have a look
07:57 AM rdtsc: ladder-logic 101: https://www.youtube.com/@Electrical-lad
09:53 AM _unreal_: Blaaaaa going though a tone of thumb drives
09:53 AM _unreal_: ton
09:59 AM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> http://6-f.cc/nc/index.php/s/oktGbzwLB96spNT
10:06 AM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> this is why 200mm limit
10:09 AM Tom_L: is that for Y?
10:20 AM rdtsc: perfect time for a cleaning
10:21 AM rdtsc: interprets gcode :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQbPdiuUTw
12:16 PM roycroft: time for a break
12:16 PM roycroft: the rest of the gravel is unloaded, and i'm tired
12:16 PM roycroft: i don't have as much energy as i had yesterday - i hope it does not continue to wane as the days of physical labor progresw
12:17 PM Tom_L: day or two and your body will adjust
12:17 PM roycroft: yeah, i hope so
12:17 PM roycroft: as long as i don't push myself too hard on those first days
12:17 PM roycroft: and yesterday i kind of pushed
12:18 PM roycroft: i'm actually looking forward to the work - i gain weight when i'm not doing physical work, even though i exercise asb est i can
12:19 PM roycroft: i still have to spread and tamp, but that won't be too bad
12:19 PM roycroft: then the fun part - the portable garage work
12:36 PM rdtsc: must say... Lazarus (free pascal IDE) is modern, quite intuitive, and robust, with native build support for 20 architectures and 43 targets... impressive!
12:40 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lol - I think I will have the 42 filled with steel by the end of the day...
12:41 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I was going to take a load of cast next but I guess I am not there yet
01:03 PM * roycroft has been trying to log into his health insurance portal for over 50 minutes now
01:04 PM roycroft: and i wonder why i don't get as much done as i'd like to
01:04 PM roycroft: i usually blame it on old age and slowing down
01:04 PM roycroft: but maybe i'll take a play from the maga playbook and blame someone else for once :)
01:05 PM * roycroft wants to rake gravel, not camp out on hold
01:09 PM xxcoder: why not both with headset?
01:11 PM roycroft: i don't have a headset for my phone
01:11 PM roycroft: and the cord won't reach out there
01:11 PM xxcoder: hardline eh
01:11 PM roycroft: yes
01:11 PM roycroft: my cell phone is for work
01:11 PM roycroft: i do not use it for personal matters
01:12 PM roycroft: and i don't have and don't want a personal cell phone
01:12 PM xxcoder: hardline gets more rare each year. surpised to hear one being used lol
01:12 PM roycroft: well, it's a sip phone
01:12 PM roycroft: not a traditional land line
01:12 PM xxcoder: theres few "dumb smartphone" thats little more than dial call and text
01:12 PM roycroft: i can't afford that
01:13 PM xxcoder: ahh ok
01:13 PM roycroft: when i cancelled my landline service i was paying close to $70/month for basic service without caller id and without long distance
01:13 PM roycroft: that's insane
01:13 PM roycroft: a sip trunk costs me $1.50/month, and $0.0005/minute for talk time
01:14 PM xxcoder: when I last had hardline was nearly 20 years ago, and cost as much. and I agree it was insane
01:14 PM roycroft: i kept it for as long as possible because land lines work even when the power is out, and voip generally does not
01:14 PM roycroft: but i could no longer cost justify it
01:15 PM roycroft: that was when i still lived in eugene, and we would have a brief power outage every couple years or so
01:15 PM roycroft: now i get a power outage almost monthly, and sometimes they last several hours
01:15 PM roycroft: but i'm not going back to a land line
01:15 PM xxcoder: wow I would add solar to cover those gaps
01:16 PM fywolfluff: I haven't had a land line since 2009 or so. don't miss it.
01:16 PM roycroft: that would not help with the phone switch, because when the power is out my internet goes out too
01:16 PM roycroft: that said, i do want to add some pv cells on my roof eventually
01:16 PM xxcoder: I know, but in least you would stlll retain power for ref, cooking etc
01:16 PM roycroft: i need to redo the house roof in 3-4 years
01:17 PM roycroft: and that's when i'll think about solar panels
01:17 PM fywolfluff: you don't just need panels... you need battery too.
01:17 PM roycroft: right now i need to focus on the shop roof
01:17 PM roycroft: if i ever get off the phone before the rainy season starts
01:17 PM roycroft: yes, fywolfluff, that's part of the system
01:17 PM roycroft: an inverter as well
01:18 PM fywolfluff: only like 1% of solar systems have batteries. it's not an assumption to make when people talk about getting solar.
01:18 PM fywolfluff is now known as fluffywolf
01:18 PM xxcoder: I want to be mainly on solar power and invertor someday
01:19 PM roycroft: so those two firefighters who were detained by ice in washington are still being detained, one of them is from oregon, and senator wyden says he has the proper paperwork to live here and work here, and blm has cancelled the contractd for the firefighting firm that employed the two
01:19 PM roycroft: the same firm who were over on the olympic penninsula fighting a big fire
01:20 PM roycroft: so i guess that fire is going to just run wild
01:20 PM xxcoder: ironic considering "ice" in name. they sure is on side of fire
01:20 PM roycroft: washington is a blue state
01:20 PM roycroft: dear leader doesn't care if the whole state burns down
01:21 PM roycroft: as long as his goons get to lock up more brown people who are doing nothing wrong
01:21 PM * roycroft had better shut up before he says something regrettable
01:22 PM roycroft: this is like the paramedic who got arrested recently because he was busy at an accident scene saving someone's life and refused to let them die so he could go move his firetruck after a cop ordered him to
02:19 PM roycroft: well so much for my plan to finish the driveway before noon
02:19 PM roycroft: thanks, united health!
02:19 PM roycroft: i just finished, but it's 12:07, and i need another break before i can start on the portable garage work
02:20 PM roycroft: after all the tamping i got my lawn roller out and filled it with water and rolled over the whole thing a few times, and it's not too bumpy now :)
02:21 PM roycroft: i wasn't sure if it would work, although it does a great job with topsoil, but i guess it does weigh about 250kg or more when it's full of water, so a fair amount of pressure
02:31 PM xxcoder: nice
02:44 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> well - the tractor won't pick up the back end of the forklift.. Going to have to cut it up more
02:54 PM rdtsc: 4000lbs is asking a lot from a tractor
03:00 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> hmm machine and linuxcnc worked wonders before, now homing Z goes to trigger endstop, and then tries to go way higher
03:00 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> nothing changed
03:00 PM JT-Shop: something has changed
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> or yeah could by my old issue with the cable I reckon, one time it was allways same dire nomatter what
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> * dir
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> i will have to jiggle it 😄
03:02 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> can I make linuxcnc move an axis despite not homed to test it?
03:02 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> a few mil up and down
03:02 PM JT-Shop: yup you can jog all you want before homing
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> oh I can, i was under the impression I couldnt
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> now it moved up and down at least
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> home test to be done
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> woopdie doo it works
03:03 PM JT-Shop: it might be challenging to jog a joint on a gantry...
03:04 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> I have a future plan with linuxcnc I think hasnt been done 😄
03:04 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> cnc rug-tufting controller
03:04 PM JT-Shop: jogging before homing is joint jogging, after homing you are jogging by axes
03:10 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> havent use my machine since it was perfected :/
03:10 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> no I might have a project soon, yeey. Circularsaw attachmane plate to turn into a table saw
03:11 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> * now
03:11 PM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> which will also be able to take my router, so a multiboxtool 😄
03:49 PM _unreal_: wish I knew where stuff is
03:49 PM _unreal_: I'm burning a knoppix disk to try and see what is on a computer before I wipe it and set it up for my daughter
03:50 PM _unreal_: If I knew where my folders are that have all my old sys disks it would be easy
03:50 PM _unreal_: :/
04:46 PM _unreal_: ok some success, got that computer I'm setting up for my daughter booted with knoppix, and transfering files off of the HD to a thumb drive. OMG. usb 1.1
04:46 PM _unreal_: and a few gigs
04:47 PM _unreal_: ETA 1.1 hours
04:47 PM _unreal_: I'm setting up a 600mhz cel with 256mb ram. going to make it a win98 machine. have not figured out which video card I want to put in it yet.
04:48 PM roycroft: my new portable garage is erected and the top is on
04:48 PM roycroft: after a break i'll start moving it into place and put the sides on
04:49 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I'm working on getting a phoneline and ethernet cable run between my daughters room and mine direct. just for the old computers. its about time she FINALLY gets to use and play with the old games
04:50 PM roycroft: and we have a new fire weather watch
04:50 PM roycroft: i don't use ethernet for everything these days, but i do like to have strategic ethernet drops
04:51 PM roycroft: after i get the new roof on the shop i'll be restringing the power lines to it (underground permanent power will be next year)
04:52 PM roycroft: i may pull an ethernet cable out there at that time
04:52 PM xxcoder: I guess it would need emf protection as it run parallel to power
04:52 PM roycroft: i've done it before and it's been fine
04:53 PM roycroft: differential signals on twisted pair wires are pretty robust :)
04:53 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Hey all
04:53 PM xxcoder: hey
04:53 PM _unreal_: roy the phoneline is for a "full-duplex" serial rs232 to rs-422 converters
04:53 PM _unreal_: rs232 wont make the distance of the run.
04:53 PM roycroft: i have a wee bit of weed eating to do before moving the new portable garage into place, which is why i didn't just do it when i got it erected
04:54 PM roycroft: rs232 can go remarkably far
04:55 PM roycroft: i've gotten speeds of 115,200bps on runs that are hundreds of meters long
04:55 PM _unreal_: o,O
04:56 PM roycroft: but that requires really good, low capacitence cables
04:56 PM roycroft: rs422 is generally better suited for long runs like that
04:56 PM _unreal_: too which I dont have
04:56 PM roycroft: but even with crappy cable you should get good speeds at 50m
04:56 PM _unreal_: I do have some long rs232 cables but I'm not looking to join cables with couplers to make the run
04:57 PM * roycroft uses cat6 for rs232
04:57 PM roycroft: i'm in a weird state that i hate, but experience all too often
04:57 PM roycroft: i'm really tired an need a break, but know that if i rest for very long i won't get up again to finish the job
04:58 PM roycroft: so i have to go back to work before i'm ready to, to make sure i actually go back to work
04:58 PM roycroft: and this project *must* be done today
04:58 PM roycroft: it cannot wait
05:02 PM * roycroft wonders why home depot displays the warning "this product must be ordered in quantities of 1 or more" on certain items
05:02 PM roycroft: like i am going to try to order half a sawhorse
05:02 PM roycroft: (the items i'm looking at do not come in pairs"
05:02 PM roycroft: )
05:03 PM xxcoder: 1 or more? doesnt it mean I cannot order 0 or less?
05:03 PM roycroft: apparently not
05:03 PM roycroft: ok, i'm at the point where i'm still not ready to go back to work, but i know that if i don't get up now i won't get up at all
05:04 PM roycroft: so i'm getting up and going back to work anyway
05:29 PM JT-Shop: the band saw is mobile now... it's a bit of work to get it up off the floor but doable
05:30 PM JT-Shop: now to finger out where to put it in the circle of wood working machines
07:09 PM Guest3762 is now known as pcw-home
07:11 PM _unreal_: its amazing how the other day I was drowning in USB to rs232 adapters. now I cant find a single one of them. since I got the phone line run
07:13 PM _unreal_: just so typical
07:13 PM _unreal_: I've got like 5
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lol - I have bought them for work - random control things. I don't think I have any at home
08:05 PM roycroft: i got three sides of my new portable garage installed, but when i was starting the last one i totally ran out of steam, very suddenly
08:05 PM roycroft: my back is a little sore, but that's not it
08:05 PM roycroft: it may be mild heat stroke
08:06 PM roycroft: anyway, the fourth side is the back wall, facing my shop
08:06 PM roycroft: i'll be ok not having that one on tonight
08:06 PM roycroft: i am definitely done for the day
08:06 PM xxcoder: drink some water
08:07 PM roycroft: i've been drinking water and gatorade all day
08:08 PM roycroft: it might be wise for me to go take a cool shower
08:08 PM xxcoder: thats good. hopefully youre cooling down nicely
08:08 PM roycroft: both to get the grime off and cool me down
08:08 PM roycroft: i'm in the house with the ac on, and i'm feeling a lot better already
08:08 PM roycroft: and no fever, so it's not really heat stroke
08:08 PM roycroft: more like "heat exhaustion"
08:09 PM roycroft: i've also been moving slowly while out in the sun today
08:09 PM roycroft: like half my normal pace
08:10 PM xxcoder: that may not be a stroke, but thats not healthy condition. bathe and cool
08:11 PM roycroft: no
08:11 PM roycroft: i needed to stop work and go indoors immediately, and i knew it
08:28 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> https://photos.app.goo.gl/tPL5h61bp1kxghnK6
08:29 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I kinda petered out today.. I did not get as much stuff done as I wanted to..
08:29 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> but that is ok - I got an hour nap today and it was good
08:31 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> but I spent yesterday moving stuff from the house the ex is moving out of and are renting.. and setup 2 starlink dishes
08:38 PM ywolflufff: I spent most of the morning gardening. it wasn't something I need to get done, but it was what I was in the mood to do.
08:40 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> that is it.. exactly
08:40 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I was hoping to get the plasma out to cut up the forklift weight.. but that is a tomorrow project
08:50 PM * roycroft feels even better now
08:50 PM xxcoder: nice
08:50 PM roycroft: i'm reminded of the old adage "white collar workers shower in the morning; blue collar workers shower at night"
08:50 PM roycroft: i'm kind of both
08:50 PM roycroft: and today i showered in the morning and i showered at night
08:51 PM roycroft: i'm also down 2kg in weight from this morning, so although i've been hydrating all day, it seems i haven't done so enough
08:52 PM * roycroft is drinking more water now, and will endevour to drink another 2l tonight
08:52 PM Tom_L: don't over do it
08:53 PM Tom_L: you can actually drink too much too quick
08:53 PM roycroft: yes, i'll meter it
08:53 PM roycroft: but 2kg weight loss translates to 2l water loss
08:53 PM Tom_L: i've been to that edge a time or two
08:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> Lol.. I don't usually shower on the weekends.. today my daughter asked if I had tomorrow off.. I said yes.. she said - you should shower.. lol
08:53 PM Tom_L: heh
08:54 PM roycroft: and yes, some of that is caloric burning
08:55 PM roycroft: but not 2kg in a day
08:55 PM roycroft: especially not at the pace i am able to work these days
08:55 PM xxcoder: water weight is easiest to lose
08:55 PM roycroft: yup
08:56 PM roycroft: any time i register a sudden, dramatic weight change i'm always certain it's a water thing
09:10 PM fywolfluff: grr, my hotspot is really sucking today.
09:11 PM roycroft: so the roof and side panels of my new portable garage are mildewed
09:11 PM roycroft: i'm installing them for now, but wearing an n95 mask while doing so
09:11 PM roycroft: amazon want me to return the whole thing
09:11 PM roycroft: but
09:11 PM roycroft: 1. i spent several hours erecting it
09:12 PM roycroft: 2. the boxes are already broken down and put out for recycling
09:12 PM roycroft: 3. i don't think i can ship hazardous materials via normal carriers and i don't think amazon will want to pay for a hazmat shipment
09:13 PM fywolfluff: ... I don't think being mildewed counts as hazmat.
09:14 PM xxcoder: I wonder if steam cleaner could clean it
09:14 PM fywolfluff: I work for a shipping company, and I would not call mildew hazmat, as long as it was bagged and boxed.
09:14 PM roycroft: it's not as hazardous as some other things, but mildew can cause serious respiratory and allergic reactions
09:15 PM xxcoder: I would bet that mildew is due to it being a returnee
09:15 PM roycroft: the box was all taped up
09:15 PM roycroft: so that could be the caes
09:16 PM xxcoder: maybe you can talk with amazon about it ponentally a returnee
09:17 PM roycroft: i'm trying to work with them now
09:17 PM fywolfluff: I'd consider mildew a lot less hazardous than all the god awful bath and body products people get that fucking leak all over everything and burn your nose and make your eyes water...
09:18 PM roycroft: it can cause serious respiratory and allergic problems
09:19 PM roycroft: i would not feel comfortable shipping something that i know is mildewed
09:20 PM fywolfluff: well... as someone at a shipping company, I assure, we do not care. just put it in a garbage bag and put it in a box.
09:21 PM xxcoder: if roy cares, he cares. thats when packaging company feelings dont really matter
09:27 PM fywolfluff: if only we could get Staples to start putting gallons of bleach in bags as per our fucking hazmat policy, that would be really nice. lol
09:27 PM fywolfluff: soooo many packages ruined from Staples shipping bleach with zero packaging.
09:27 PM roycroft: as per usual, they want pictures
09:28 PM roycroft: i do not want to risk causing anyone any health issues
09:28 PM roycroft: and it's not just logistics
09:28 PM roycroft: it's the returns folks who process the return
09:29 PM roycroft: and the next customer, when they reship the damaged item to a new customer
09:30 PM * roycroft should see if his phone is charged enough to upload the pictures of the mildew
10:24 PM roycroft: so amazon will not ship me replacement panels
10:25 PM roycroft: but they offered me a full refund
10:25 PM roycroft: so i guess i can get that and order another one
10:25 PM xxcoder: thats something I guess
10:25 PM xxcoder: is panels solid?>
10:26 PM xxcoder: ie not tarp-like sheets
10:26 PM roycroft: they are fiberglass tarp like things
10:27 PM xxcoder: hmm got link to it? curious what ot looks like
10:27 PM roycroft: i just don't want to have to move and dismantle the frame
10:27 PM _unreal_: O..M..G.. I'm having issues getting win98 on my daughters legacy computer
10:28 PM _unreal_: cant seem to make a bootable disk and I dont know why.. seems like boot flags are a bad thing now
10:28 PM _unreal_: just found a win98se cd ISO
10:28 PM _unreal_: burning that right now
10:28 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D72DS7QK
10:29 PM xxcoder: thanks
10:29 PM xxcoder: so its bit better than tarp or elcheapo plastic sheets, but not solid panels
10:29 PM _unreal_: does anyone have experience wiring phone lines? just looking for a second opinion
10:30 PM roycroft: so now that i'm getting a full refund, i'll have to consider whether it's worth spending the time killing it all with bleach
10:30 PM roycroft: it was definitely not worth investing any time in before
10:30 PM xxcoder: would steam cleaner work?
10:30 PM xxcoder: or would it melt sheet
10:30 PM roycroft: i used to work for a telco, and i've installed literally hundreds of miles of phoen cables
10:30 PM roycroft: bleach would be better
10:31 PM _unreal_: well I'm using phone line to connect my daughters room and mine
10:31 PM * roycroft takes another swig, just to keep the covid down
10:31 PM roycroft: what is the issue, _unreal_?
10:31 PM _unreal_: the phone jack boxes I used have color coded wires on the back side
10:31 PM _unreal_: I assume I just match the wire colors to the box for a straight one box to an other connection
10:31 PM roycroft: red, green, yellow, black?
10:32 PM roycroft: yes, you do a straight through connection regardless
10:32 PM roycroft: an actual analog phone line uses 2 wires - tip and ring
10:32 PM _unreal_: GOD DAMN IT the fucking cd burn just popped up and I cancled the burn. WHY the hell did it jump up
10:33 PM xxcoder: true on bleach
10:33 PM roycroft: you wire tip to tip and ring to ring
10:34 PM _unreal_: tip to tip ring to ring
10:34 PM fywolfluff: I don't understand what you're doing. Are you actually connecting a phone line, provided by a telco? Running your own pbx? Attempting to make two modems talk to each other without a pbx? Just using the wires as dry conductors for something else?
10:34 PM _unreal_: I dont know what that stands for
10:34 PM roycroft: you don't need to
10:34 PM roycroft: just wire it straight through
10:34 PM _unreal_: fywolfluff, I'm using rs-422
10:34 PM _unreal_: over a 1 to 1 phone wire
10:35 PM roycroft: i don't understand wither
10:35 PM roycroft: either
10:35 PM roycroft: but i was asked how to wire analog phone jacks
10:35 PM roycroft: so i responded accordingly
10:36 PM fywolfluff: you probably shouldn't be wiring phone connectors to it, if you're not using it for a phone line...
10:36 PM _unreal_: the overall goal is to use the wire to play with modem and null modem setups
10:37 PM _unreal_: its just a one to one to teach my daughter some of the old systems. MORE to play games then again thing
10:37 PM fywolfluff: and you'll need to connect the transmit pair to the receive pair on the other end, in each direction.
10:37 PM fywolfluff: brb
10:37 PM _unreal_: yes tx + tx - to rx+ and rx-
10:37 PM _unreal_: and vica versa for full duplex
10:38 PM _unreal_: the phone line question was more of a smple setup question.
10:38 PM _unreal_: I assume its just match colors of the wires to the little jack/box with the same colors and both ends
10:38 PM * roycroft is too tired to try to understand this, and gives up for tonight
10:39 PM ffywolfluf: you'll probably want to put db9/de9 connectors on the wire, not phone stuff.
10:40 PM roycroft: there is no such thing as a "db9" connector
10:40 PM roycroft: the only 9 pin d-shell connector is size e
10:40 PM ffywolfluf: you will note I specified the correct name as well as the common name. :P
10:41 PM roycroft: which can also have 15 pins
10:41 PM roycroft: yes, and i appreciate that
10:41 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:41 PM roycroft: but the term "db9" needs to be banished
10:41 PM ffywolfluf: it's the name most people will know them as.
10:42 PM roycroft: claiming there is a "db9" connector is like claiming there is an honest politician who works for their constituents
10:42 PM roycroft: it's something you can say, but has no basis in reality
10:42 PM * ffywolfluf likes Bernie
10:43 PM ffywolfluf: regardless, it makes a lot more sense to put the correct connector on the wire, not a phone connector...
10:43 PM roycroft: i would run cat 6 and use rj45 connectors on each end
10:44 PM roycroft: but not an analog pots line
10:44 PM ffywolfluf: unless the goal is a pbx (or a power supply sufficient to trick modems they're talking to one) and attempting direct modem connections...
10:44 PM roycroft: i use cat6 for all my serial cables
10:44 PM xxcoder: yeah 98 is recent enough to have such networking support
10:45 PM ffywolfluf: he doesn't want a network. he wants a slow, unreliable serial connection, just like the old days. lol
10:45 PM roycroft: ffywolfluf: i developed a "universal rs232 connector" system about 30 years ago
10:46 PM roycroft: i use cat6 (cat 5 back then) cables with rj45 connectors on each end
10:46 PM ffywolfluf: I had such a system too! ... about ten pounds of assorted adapters.
10:46 PM roycroft: i don't wire it like ethernet, though
10:46 PM roycroft: i wire it solids and stripes
10:46 PM xxcoder: 30 years ago I was going out to lan parties once a while
10:46 PM xxcoder: hauling 500 pound montiors
10:46 PM xxcoder: uphill both ways and all ;)
10:47 PM ffywolfluf: I never was a gamer, so no lan parties for me.
10:48 PM roycroft: i.e.: pin 1 - brown, pin 2 - green, pin 3 - orange, pin 4 - blue, pin 5 - white/blue, pin 6 - white/orange, pin 7 - white/green, pin 8 - white/brown
10:48 PM roycroft: 100% of my rs232 cables are wired like that
10:48 PM roycroft: then i have a set of rj45 to de9 or db25 adapters
10:48 PM roycroft: dte and dce for each
10:48 PM xxcoder: was a gamer only in early days. later years I bought maybe one game a year. minecraft, ksp, portal
10:48 PM ffywolfluf: If using cat5 with rj45 connectors, might as well follow ethernet standard, so you can repurpose it later if you want...
10:48 PM roycroft: so, with male and female, there are 8 adapters in a kit
10:49 PM roycroft: i do it this way on purpose
10:49 PM xxcoder: skylines was last game i bought
10:50 PM roycroft: pins 4/5 (blue, white-blue) are tx/rx
10:50 PM * ffywolfluf seems to remember rj45 is also a misnomer
10:50 PM roycroft: pins 3/6 (orange, white-orange) are dtr/dcr
10:51 PM roycroft: pins 2/7 (green, white green) are rts/cts
10:52 PM roycroft: pins 1/8 (brown, white brown) are ri/gnd
10:52 PM roycroft: iirc
10:52 PM roycroft: so with no flow control or other signaling at all you just use the center two pins
10:52 PM ffywolfluf: and ground.
10:53 PM roycroft: with minimal signaling you add the next two pins outward
10:53 PM roycroft: with hardware flow control you add the next two
10:53 PM roycroft: since the wires are twisted, you get a "differential effect" even thoug rs232 is not differential
10:53 PM _unreal_: ok win98 install is working
10:54 PM roycroft: ri and gnd are more impervious to noise than the other rs232 signals
10:54 PM ffywolfluf: I mean, you need ground. rs232 won't work or won't be reliable without ground.
10:54 PM roycroft: i get your point about wiring consistently with ethernet
10:54 PM ffywolfluf: you can't only hook up rx and tx.
10:54 PM xxcoder: I'm just glad 10base2 is dead and gone
10:54 PM roycroft: but my wiring is more robust
10:54 PM xxcoder: terminators and figuring where danged wire disconnected
10:54 PM roycroft: and it think it's worth the inconsistency
10:55 PM roycroft: i label mine very clearly too
10:55 PM ffywolfluf: I used a lot of thinwire... I probably still have a bucket of tees and terminators somewhere.
10:55 PM roycroft: and under ideal circumstances they would work with ethernet, because ethernet doesn't care what colors the wires are
10:55 PM xxcoder: never used thicknet as it was barely oast that era
10:55 PM ffywolfluf: yeah, I also never used thicknet.
10:55 PM roycroft: i used it a lot in the early days
10:55 PM roycroft: back when the novell networks i managed were running unix
10:56 PM _unreal_: doom2 duke3d etc... only use RX/TX
10:56 PM roycroft: yes, most folks don't know that novell originally was unix-based, on 68k machines with a vme bus
10:56 PM roycroft: i.e. similar to early sun machines
10:57 PM ffywolfluf: if your rs232 worked without the ground wire, it was only because your machine had a resistor to the chasis ground and it was grounding through the building wiring...
10:57 PM roycroft: note that gnd is one of the signals in my cables
10:57 PM roycroft: i do ri and gnd on the outermost pair
10:57 PM ffywolfluf: right, but you can't just use the center two. and now _unreal_ just said you only use rx/tx too!
10:58 PM roycroft: but i have seen rs232 connections that run only tx/rx, without gnd
10:58 PM roycroft: and yes, i assume it was using building ground
10:58 PM _unreal_: who says I'm not using ground
10:58 PM roycroft: and was probably dangerous as hell
10:58 PM _unreal_: I'm using rs232 to rs422/485 adapters
10:59 PM ffywolfluf: my last rs232 project was an optoisolator for a weather station... I used an off-the-shelf optoisolator, but needed to inject power into the far side of it, since the device on the other side stole power from the control lines to power its own circuitry.
10:59 PM _unreal_: the manual its self says for full duplex rx+ rx- and tx+ tx- invert them
10:59 PM _unreal_: does not show ground. does show ground in other wire setups with multi terminal drops
11:00 PM roycroft: rx needs to connect to tx and vice versa in the end
11:00 PM ffywolfluf: I don't remember if 422 needs ground or not. it uses loops, so it may not need it.
11:00 PM roycroft: but the question is: are both devices dte? are they both dce? is one dte and the other dce?
11:00 PM roycroft: if they are both dte or dce, you need crossover ables
11:00 PM roycroft: cables
11:00 PM ffywolfluf: and do you have any idea what roycroft is asking? :P
11:00 PM roycroft: but if one is dte and the other is dce you need a straight cable
11:01 PM roycroft: because the pinouts on dce are different to dte
11:01 PM roycroft: they take care of the tx/rx (and other signal crossing) already
11:02 PM ffywolfluf: I'm guessing he has two identical adapters, and thus will need to crossover.
11:02 PM roycroft: so a dte device always connects to a dce device with a straight-through cable, and the signal crossings are taken care of by the connectors on the devices
11:02 PM roycroft: if it's serial ports on two computers, they are both dte
11:02 PM roycroft: so you need a cross-connect cable
11:03 PM roycroft: btw, dte means "data terminal equipment" and dce means "data communications equipment"
11:03 PM roycroft: a computer or dumb terminal is dte
11:03 PM roycroft: a modem is dce
11:03 PM roycroft: i hate the term "null modem adapter"
11:03 PM roycroft: it means nothing to me
11:03 PM ffywolfluf: it's even more fun, since he's using rs232 to rs422 adapters, so there's two places on each end to make sure the signals line up.
11:04 PM ffywolfluf: usb->rs232->rs422 I think.
11:04 PM xxcoder: null modem lol yeah. we used it for 2 pc gaming
11:04 PM roycroft: but the thing that is commonly called a "null modem adapter" does the tx/rx, rts/cts, etc. signal crossing
11:05 PM roycroft: a usb to rs232 dongle will be dte
11:05 PM roycroft: i have no idea what the rs422 adapter would be, because it depends on the adapter
11:05 PM roycroft: but if this rs232 run is within a house, i see no reason at all to covert to rs422 and back
11:07 PM ffywolfluf: I might have a minor serial project soon... got some lifepo4 batteries coming next week, and the BMSes speak rs485.
11:08 PM xxcoder: be safe there. I love lifepo4 tho. I upgraded my ups to it, and its amazing
11:08 PM xxcoder: dunno what to do to orginal 2 lead acid
11:09 PM roycroft: and btw, i forgot to comment on this earlier, but rj45 refers to a specific wiring of an 8p8c connector
11:09 PM ffywolfluf: I have no idea if they can actually share the same bus or not... the documentation is... lacking.
11:09 PM roycroft: so my rs232 cables aren't really rj45
11:10 PM ffywolfluf: bbl, I need to unload some crap from my car before bed, and it's very close to bedtime.
11:11 PM * roycroft thinks he'll be going to bed early tonight
11:29 PM ffywolfluf: back, car unloaded
11:34 PM ffywolfluf: got some machining-type things at a yard sale yesterday... a box of taps, some starrett calipers (of the totally manual kind... transfer calipers?), some weird shape hss lathe tooling and a partoff tool, starrett points for a wooden rule, some parts to an inside micrometer, some vee blocks, a custom cutter for a rack gear according to the stamping,...
11:34 PM ffywolfluf: need to get it out of my car before work tomorrow morning.
11:38 PM ffywolfluf: bah, sounds like even though the bmses speak rs485, they only support a single device per bus.
11:39 PM xxcoder: ordered some grape tomatos
11:39 PM xxcoder: seeds
11:39 PM xxcoder: would be interesting if it worked
11:40 PM ffywolfluf: inspired by hand tool rescue?
11:40 PM xxcoder: yeah
11:40 PM xxcoder: plus it dont cost a lot, and I already have some pots etc
11:47 PM roycroft: why would you plant tomatoes in september?
11:48 PM roycroft: also, why are you working tomorrow, ffywolfluf?
11:48 PM roycroft: it's labor day
11:49 PM roycroft: you should be spending the day at home, putting away your white shoes for the year and getting out your sweaters to see if any of them need repair or cleaning
11:50 PM xxcoder: roy yeah dont plan to do it right away
11:55 PM ffywolfluf: bbl, wolfy bedtime
11:55 PM ffywolfluf: roycroft: labor day means you labor all day.