#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 24 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM fluffywolf: I also disliked Q and every episode he is in.
12:17 AM fluffywolf: an omnipotent being goes against every bit of star trek universe logic. plus he's fucking annoying.
12:17 AM roycroft: it just seemed like they used q as a plot crutch
12:17 AM roycroft: they would come up with some bizzare plot that did not make sense
12:17 AM xxcoder: yeah. the first and last tng q is ones I least like
12:17 AM xxcoder: the judge? sure ok. the death god? sure ok
12:17 AM roycroft: and they would bring in an omnipotent jackass to make it work
12:26 AM fluffywolf: bbl, wolfy bedtime
01:00 AM Deejay: moin
03:04 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> preview 🙂 https://youtu.be/sJzwyLJhSKw
03:44 AM rmu: kewl
04:23 AM Tom_L: morning
04:31 AM Tom_L: meisterdipple, good stuff..
04:41 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer@> Morning
04:53 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:50 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:03 AM roycroft: it's friday eve!
10:04 AM Deejay: is it?
10:04 AM roycroft: 'tis
10:04 AM Deejay: its thursday here
10:05 AM roycroft: which is friday eve
10:05 AM Deejay: uh? i tought that means friday evening
10:05 AM roycroft: eve is the day before something
10:05 AM roycroft: like christmas eve
10:05 AM Deejay: ah okay, that makes sense now
10:08 AM roycroft: i use archaic/parochial language a lot
10:08 AM roycroft: mayhap too much
11:17 AM JT-Shop: everything is in position for the lift but it's lunch time
11:39 AM Deejay: lunch is cancelled!
11:45 AM JT-Shop: now it's nap time
12:00 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> Hulk Hogan has left the ring for ever......
12:05 PM roycroft: so i found myself again connecting a wire off by one lug on my mesa board
12:05 PM roycroft: because it can be hard to count when it's installed
12:06 PM roycroft: someone had made some labels for a 7i96, and i thought it might be useful to label things, making counting not necessary
12:06 PM roycroft: i made a 7i96s label sheet, in case anyone is interested
12:06 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/MiniRouter/Mesa_7i96s_Labels_Front_and_Top.pdf
12:07 PM roycroft: and i'd be happy to make label sheets like that for other mesa boards upon request, as time permits
12:07 PM Rab: roguish, incredible that I heard about it here first!
12:26 PM rmu: for the ozzy fans https://archive.org/details/black-sabbath-discography_202401
12:41 PM rdtsc-w: Ozzy, then Hulk... two more days left in the week
12:48 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> For all intensive porpoises
12:49 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> those https://www.angietabor.com/intensiveporpoises?
12:51 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Last band I named was : 3 bags of meds
12:52 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> 👍
12:56 PM roycroft: there was also chuck mangione who passed this week and, depending on what day of the week you consider the first day, also malcom-jamal warner
01:42 PM JT-Shop: all right I'm off the hook trying to load the surface grinder by myself, my buddy is coming over in the morning to help me
01:43 PM JT-Shop: I feel so much better now
01:43 PM Tom_L: kinda glad to hear that
01:43 PM Tom_L: plan A & plan B seemed a bit sketchy
01:44 PM xxcoder: yay so han solo finally coming eh
01:44 PM Tom_L: naw, the wookie
01:44 PM xxcoder: makes sense
01:47 PM JT-Shop: plan A is still on but I'll have help to watch what I can't see
01:49 PM Tom_L: i assume they have equipment there to unload it
01:52 PM JT-Shop: yup they have multiple fork lifts
01:52 PM JT-Shop: and I have some slings they can use
01:54 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/bs-612/
01:57 PM xxcoder: cool. brown and sharp when they was good
01:58 PM xxcoder: I have one caliper little bit older too. sadly it stopped being able to hold zero
02:01 PM roycroft: i am confused, which is not unusual for me these days
02:01 PM roycroft: i am trying to understand the pin tree for my 7i96s in halshow
02:02 PM roycroft: my board has 24 io connector pins - 12 input and 12 output
02:02 PM roycroft: i think those should be mapped to gpio pins in hal, no?
02:02 PM roycroft: if so, hal has 50 gpio pins, all input
02:03 PM roycroft: but i look at the inm pins, and i show some encoder pins, and 11 inputs, which is what are on the board, + an input common pin
02:03 PM roycroft: so i'm thinking the gpio pins are something different
02:04 PM roycroft: but when i look at output pins (outm), all i see are output 05 and 05
02:04 PM roycroft: not out0-out3
02:05 PM roycroft: where are those in the halshow tree?
02:05 PM pcw---home: out-0..out-3 are ssr pins
02:06 PM pcw---home: (slightly different hardware)
02:06 PM roycroft: oh, thanks
02:06 PM roycroft: ok, i see them now
02:06 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Missed the chuck mangione news
02:06 PM roycroft: that was obviously not obvious to me :)
02:07 PM pcw---home: All pins can be GPIO, but secondary functions (Stepgen,PWMgens,Encoders etc) are overlaid on top
02:08 PM pcw---home: if you disable all secondary functions, you will just have GPIO left
02:09 PM roycroft: i see
02:09 PM roycroft: i'm sorry i keep asking such basic questions
02:09 PM xxcoder: basic but valid questions
02:09 PM roycroft: the questions will hopefully become more interesting over time
02:11 PM pcw---home: so for example, if you wanted a 5V output to run an external SSR and you don't use all stepgens, you could have "num_stepgens=4" as a driver command line stanza in the hal file, and that would free up STEP4 and DIR4 as GPIO pins
02:12 PM roycroft: that makes sense
02:13 PM pcw---home: the GPIO inputs are always available but outputs are not if the overlaid secondary function is enabled
02:13 PM roycroft: i'm accessing the right pin now, but what i'm trying to do is not working
02:14 PM roycroft: jt suggested it might, but he was busy and i got no details
02:14 PM roycroft: what i have is an external relay module with four relays
02:14 PM roycroft: i'm providing + and - 5v to the module, and it is providing +5v to each of the relay coils
02:14 PM roycroft: i need to ground each coil to actuate the relay
02:15 PM roycroft: and i thought that using out0- would do that, but it's not
02:15 PM roycroft: it's odd that the board is providing +5v to each coil and not a common ground for them, but that's how it works
02:16 PM pcw---home: Does the board have drivers?
02:16 PM roycroft: no
02:16 PM roycroft: it's a very simple board
02:16 PM pcw---home: Do the coils have flyback diodes?
02:16 PM roycroft: 4 relays, 4 opto-isolaters, power pins, and a pin for each relay coil
02:17 PM roycroft: i'm not sure
02:17 PM roycroft: one moment
02:18 PM pcw---home: so 5V common to OUT-, OUT+ to coil
02:18 PM roycroft: it seems to
02:19 PM roycroft: looking at a picture of one, i see an optoisolator, a resistor, and a diode for each relay
02:20 PM pcw---home: Does the OPTO drive the relay?
02:20 PM roycroft: https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/4-channel-relay-board-5v-26735631848.html
02:20 PM roycroft: that's not the exact module i have, but there are dozens of variations that are essentially identical
02:20 PM roycroft: and my understanding is that the optioisolators drive the relays
02:21 PM pcw---home: So you could actually drive these from the parallel expansion port...
02:23 PM roycroft: p1?
02:23 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:23 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:25 PM Tom_L: yup
02:25 PM roycroft: hmm
02:25 PM roycroft: i wonder if i can wire-wrap to some of those pins
02:25 PM Tom_L: use a ribbon
02:26 PM roycroft: or if i can find my collection of ribbon cables and idc connectors
02:26 PM Tom_L: i just got some 'ribbon' jumpers that can be separated
02:26 PM Tom_L: m-m m-f f-f
02:27 PM roycroft: i think there is a bob in the box of stuff that i got from xxcoder
02:27 PM xxcoder: definitely
02:27 PM roycroft: i don't know what the connector is for it though
02:27 PM xxcoder: parallel port
02:27 PM Tom_L: https://www.pololu.com/product/4564
02:27 PM roycroft: but that would be an easy way to deal with this
02:28 PM Tom_L: cut off what you need and put them where you like
02:28 PM roycroft: although it means finding room to mount something else inside the cabinet, and i'm running low on real estate
02:28 PM Tom_L: still keep the ribbon
02:28 PM Tom_L: i got some 4 & 8"
02:29 PM Tom_L: different site but same thing
02:29 PM Tom_L: save wire wrapping
02:29 PM pcw---home: You can do it with the OUT pins but its a bit of a waste
02:29 PM Tom_L: pcw, is half that port GND?
02:29 PM pcw---home: you can also steal 5V from P1
02:30 PM roycroft: wire wrapping is fun though :)
02:30 PM rdtsc-w: wonder if those are opto-darlingtons - seeing some good to 0.8W
02:30 PM Tom_L: those wires are heavier than regular ribbon
02:30 PM roycroft: i need 5v and milliamps for this
02:30 PM roycroft: i do not need heavy gage wire
02:30 PM pcw---home: No, its parallel port pinout (so 25 pins with 17 signals and 8 grounds)
02:30 PM Tom_L: ok
02:31 PM roycroft: this is just for the coil
02:31 PM roycroft: not for the payload
02:31 PM Tom_L: just saying you could keep them bundled with the ribbon
02:31 PM roycroft: but even the payload does not need much power
02:31 PM roycroft: it's just neon lamps
02:31 PM roycroft: 120v and still probably milliamps
02:31 PM pcw---home: you can change 4 of those grounds to +5V via a jumper on the 7i96
02:32 PM roycroft: i don't have any other needs for outputs right now, so even though it would be a waste, it would not stop me from doing anything
02:32 PM roycroft: but using the parallel interface would probably be a better idea
02:32 PM pcw---home: so out- to 5V GND out+ to relay board
02:32 PM roycroft: and it would be an excuse for me to go unpack/organize more stuff so i can search for my ribbon cables/idc stuff
02:33 PM roycroft: ok, thanks
02:33 PM roycroft: i might give that a go before i search for the other stuff
02:33 PM roycroft: just so i know that works
02:33 PM roycroft: and that will just take a couple minutes
02:39 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> ahh those funny opto isolated relais boards...
02:39 PM rdtsc-w: using the opto as a relay driver, weird
02:39 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> double-isolation FTW!
02:40 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> cargo-cult-EE
02:41 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> there are chinese modbus boards that look nearly the same, a variant with stm8s003 uses the same "trick" but has 4 non-isolated inputs
02:42 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> a nearly identically looking board does the sane thing, uses the opto isolators on the inputs and BJTs to drive the relays
02:42 PM Rab: The board roycroft posted has discrete SOT-23 transistors for driving the coils.
02:43 PM rdtsc-w: omit the BJT = bean-counters rejoyce :)
02:43 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> this is the stupid version https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Stock-Modbus-Rtu-4-way-RS485_1601006647404.html
02:43 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> but you can flash stm8 forth on it
02:45 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Modbus-Rtu-1248-relay-Module-Switch_1601433227595.html
02:46 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> this is the saner version. didn't test it though. it has a differen µC on it but IIRC it is pin-compatible to stm8s003
02:47 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> completely impossible prices...
02:48 PM rdtsc-w: costs cut at every corner
02:49 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> doesn't look like it. there are even some debug LEDs
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/7-24V-Modbus-RTU-2-Channels_1600976909173.html
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> you couldn't even buy the screw terminals for that price in the EU.
02:51 PM roycroft: but in the us, be sure to add the whack-a-mole 30%-145% tariff :)
02:53 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> who cares if one module cost 0,80 or 1,60
02:53 PM xxcoder: lol the capcha is broken
02:53 PM xxcoder: I try to slide and it says error
02:53 PM roycroft: what if you need 10,000 modules?
02:54 PM roycroft: so that you can manufacture your product in the usa
02:54 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> then i would not go shopping on alibaba i think
02:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Phuck you, worship the Cheeto Hitler, it's all that matters 🙂
02:54 PM Rab: Nobody should be buying 10,000 of these things unless it's another distributor of hobbyist chinesium.
02:55 PM roycroft: my point is not specific to that product
02:55 PM roycroft: but we're digressing
02:55 PM roycroft: and while i'm sure i've been as annoying as usual lately, i've been on-topic annoying
02:55 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> being offtopic is required on this #
02:55 PM xxcoder: 10 or 10000 always have different answers :D
02:55 PM roycroft: and i don't want to stray from that much
02:56 PM roycroft: but right now i have to get back to work
02:56 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> 3.5 more years of this clown show, so buckle up
02:57 PM roycroft: maybe
02:57 PM roycroft: maybe the clown show will be different soon
02:57 PM roycroft: maybe this clown show will last indefinitely
02:57 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> it could always get worse
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> i take it there is no way for early elections? there is a fixed succession like vize president / speaker of the house / whatever in case the president is impeached?
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> (successfully impeached)
03:02 PM xxcoder: impeachment and removal from position is 2 seperate steps
03:02 PM roycroft: there is no mechanism for early elections
03:03 PM roycroft: in the case that the president leaves office for whatever reason the vice-president becomes president
03:04 PM roycroft: and there is a further line of succession - the next two would be the speaker of the house and then the president pro temp (senator with the greatest senority) of the senate
03:04 PM Rab: There is the question of whether the Vance clown show is any more desirable.
03:04 PM xxcoder: then heads of various depts if I recall
03:04 PM roycroft: then cabinet secretaries starting with secretary of state and in a prescribed order that i do not remember
03:05 PM xxcoder: in one story, dept of education was last position but was sole surivior so she become president
03:05 PM xxcoder: dunno how accurate that story was tho lol
03:06 PM roycroft: and xxcoder is correct - impeachment is effectively a indictment by the house of representatives that triggers a trial in the senate
03:06 PM roycroft: removal from office requires conviction by the senate in that trial
03:06 PM roycroft: that is not happened, xxcoder
03:06 PM xxcoder: I know. :)
03:07 PM roycroft: there was a pretty good tv series a few years ago called "designated survivor" where an unknown cabinet secretary - secretary of commerce - was the designated survivor at the state of the union speech, and therefor not in the capitol building
03:07 PM roycroft: the capitol was blown up during the speech, and the designated survivor became president
03:07 PM fluffywolf: did I just sit down to a discussion of how many politicians need to be assassinated before we get a good president?
03:07 PM roycroft: almost the entire congress was also killed, along with all the supreme court
03:08 PM roycroft: the answer is zero
03:08 PM roycroft: we should not become the kind of country that engages in coups
03:08 PM roycroft: that series ran on abc for 2-3 years and was really good
03:09 PM roycroft: then it got cancelled, picked up by netflix, and turned into a horror show
03:09 PM roycroft: that only lasted one season
03:09 PM fluffywolf: eh. breaking out the guillotine could do our country a lot of good...
03:10 PM * roycroft climbs out of the rabbit hole before he gets too deep
03:19 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> the dept of education story was in a movie i think
03:19 PM xxcoder: maybe? been a while
03:20 PM lcnc-relay: <rs> some stupid tech-fantasy-catastrophe thing i think. don't remember.
03:31 PM xxcoder: Designated Survivor it looks like
03:31 PM xxcoder: actually no
03:49 PM roycroft: yes
03:49 PM roycroft: i think i mentioned that
03:49 PM roycroft: oh, not the film
03:49 PM roycroft: that was the name of the tv series i was discussing
03:49 PM xxcoder: yeah. unfortunately it wasnt one I was remembering.
04:05 PM lcnc-relay: <voiditswarranty@> xxcoder: that sounds like the first episode of the battlestar galactica remake 😄
04:09 PM xxcoder: education indeed. but I remember reading about it, not watch tv about it
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/tree-liberty-quotation/
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
04:23 PM roycroft: or maybe replaced with a nice shrubbery
04:23 PM Tom_L: hedging around the topic i see
04:24 PM roycroft: HE STARTED IT!
04:24 PM Tom_L: kindof a pun but with a message
04:25 PM roycroft: yes :)
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Nnaaaaaaaahhhhh
04:25 PM roycroft: Niiiiiiiiiiiiiii!
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Nnnnihhhh
04:26 PM xxcoder: ♞
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Igy acky thump
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i try not to think about it, and stuff my uneasy thoughts into CNC
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> segway
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i need help with BLDC controllers
04:28 PM roycroft: not think about shrubberies? why? are you afraid of lush foliage?
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> hall vs not hall
04:28 PM xxcoder: talking about segway, saw one for first time few days ago. actual segway
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> yes
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> the invasive species choking out the more established invasive sopecies whwere i live
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Kudzu
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> 51state shrub
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> but what is limiting the speed on a BLDC with or without hall?
04:29 PM roycroft: it's mostly scotch broom and himalayan blackberries around here
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> it looks like the BLDC controllers with hall sensors, have some kinda DSP/CPLDor FPGA controlling it
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> and non hall or other shit just has some dumb driver
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Hall may be used to sense direction
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i understand one is using hall to send the next pulse to the motor, and the non-hall is using emf feedback to send the next pulse
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ive seen olli and slouch driving their BLDC motors with some cheap ass hardware
04:35 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> im just wondering what sets the max speed of a driver , and do i need a DSP/FPGA to do a highspeed spindle
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Inductance if the coils and switching speed of the mosfet drivers
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> DSP's and fpga's are just faster than some microcontrollers
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Look at spindle max rpm, then number of phases
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> k so is the max rpm a physical thing?
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Then how much control at max rpm
04:38 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> like, part of the coil?
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> 30,000 rpm x 3 phases x bits of control
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> when you say control
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i just want it to go fast and stay same speed, im not looking to highspeed tap
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> How precisely do you wish to control the motors rpm and position?
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Control of this
04:41 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Read up on bldc design and control
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I can't teach a course on irc in an hour
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i know, ive been
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> thanks,
04:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i have been for a while. but its hit a head now that i need 2x highspeed drivers
04:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i can use BLDC comp possibly?
04:44 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://resources.altium.com/p/build-advanced-brushless-motor-controller
04:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:47 PM JT-Shop: looks like elon fixed it
04:48 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ty cap, this will do nicely
05:16 PM roycroft: yay
05:16 PM roycroft: so the relays are working now
05:16 PM roycroft: as soon as i found out that the outputs were just ssrs it all made sense
05:17 PM roycroft: i haven't found my ribbon cable/idc stuff yet, but that's ok - i can use out[0-3] for now
05:17 PM roycroft: and if i need those for something else later i'll deal with it then
05:18 PM xxcoder: if never needed, then well its solved
05:19 PM xxcoder: ugh I cant wait for fruit fly attracants to arrive
05:19 PM roycroft: it's peak fruit fly season here
05:20 PM xxcoder: I keep killing fruit flies but never see more than one a time
05:20 PM roycroft: i've had to put up fly strips all around my kitchen
05:20 PM roycroft: there's a half dozen of them, and they're filling up fast
05:20 PM xxcoder: its like sith, two a time, one being killed and one hidden lol
05:21 PM xxcoder: my kitchen is very clean so it dont have any flies thankfully. its restroom which have few plants that does
05:21 PM xxcoder: and fruit flies seem to LOVE avocodo leaves and keeps damaging and killing leaves >:(
05:22 PM roycroft: anyway, it's time to decide how to cable up these leds
05:22 PM xxcoder: nice
05:23 PM roycroft: that will leave two things to do
05:23 PM JT-Shop: sounds like you're making progress
05:23 PM roycroft: the e-stop being one of them, and i can do that today as well
05:23 PM roycroft: and then all that's left is the encoder, and i hope that's easy to get working
05:23 PM roycroft: yes, i am
05:24 PM xxcoder: hope so.
05:24 PM roycroft: i was struggling with the signals for the relay until pcw told me that the outputs use the "ssr" section in the hal tree
05:24 PM roycroft: and i immediately realized that those pins were just ssrs
05:24 PM roycroft: tested, confirmed, and wired up the test led
05:24 PM JT-Shop: yup it can be confusing to see both gpio and outputs and inputs
05:24 PM roycroft: i don't know why i was not aware of what they were
05:25 PM roycroft: yeah, and there is an "inm" section, an "outm" section and an "ssr" section
05:25 PM roycroft: all the inputs are in the "inm" section
05:25 PM roycroft: it would stand to reason that the outputs would be in the "outm" section, but only 2 are
05:26 PM roycroft: and those two are labeled out4a, out4b, out5a, out5b instead of out4+, out4- ...
05:26 PM JT-Shop: the 7i96s has two types of outputs
05:26 PM roycroft: are they some kind of differential signal?
05:27 PM roycroft: i don't need them right now, but as long as i'm figuring out how the board works, it would be nice to know
05:27 PM JT-Shop: four isolated high current DC outputs, and two high isolation AC/DC outputs .\
05:28 PM JT-Shop: ab are the ac/dc outputs
05:28 PM roycroft: ok, that makes sense
05:28 PM roycroft: anyway, i need to go figure out how i'm going to cable from the relay to the mesa board and make that cable
05:29 PM Tom_L: not using the parallel port for them now then?
05:29 PM roycroft: there's a chance i'll have the cabinet done today, other than the touchoff probe, which i haven't even thought about yet, and don't need right away
05:29 PM roycroft: not fo rnow
05:29 PM roycroft: i haven't found the parts to easily connect to that
05:29 PM roycroft: and i have a working solution with the output pins
05:30 PM roycroft: i also just got some more 1/8" shrink tubing lables, so i can label all the skinny wires i'll be installing
05:31 PM xxcoder: BOB definitely is good option to add bunch of I/O if you ever need them. larger router is more likely to need it
06:05 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:17 PM xxcoder: https://youtu.be/dqWnoLYHGi4 wow. crazy. rebuilding shop thats been left alone for way too long
06:25 PM roycroft: i've only watched the first 10 seconds, but that shop has a lot of potential
06:25 PM roycroft: however, it's heaps of work
06:25 PM xxcoder: yeah. 2 years wow
06:25 PM roycroft: i made a cable for the relays
06:25 PM roycroft: and where i'm running it would be a good place to run the e-stop cable to the mesa board
06:26 PM roycroft: i've done a good job of keeping dc and ac power lines separated in my cabinet, and all the signal lines are far from the power lines
06:26 PM roycroft: however, i can't find a good way to route the e-stop wires other than right along with some 120vac wires
06:26 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that's not going to be an issue, but i thought i'd throw it out here in case someone thinks it might be
06:27 PM roycroft: this is just to signal the mesa board that the e-stop button has been mashed
06:27 PM roycroft: i don't think running the wires alongside and touching the ac wires is going cause enough induced voltage to trigger the e-stop sensor
06:28 PM roycroft: this circuit is no, btw
06:28 PM roycroft: does anyone disagree with me?
06:28 PM roycroft: i had to remove several components from the cabinet to run these cables/wires, and i don't want to do it again
06:32 PM * roycroft takes the silence as nobody disagrees or nobody is around who cares, and goes for it
06:33 PM xxcoder: couldnt agree or disagree as I dont know lol. probably fine
06:41 PM xxcoder: guys pretty amazing on reusing
06:41 PM xxcoder: like trash blocks from old floor into outside floor, lay randomly then cover with gravel
06:47 PM xxcoder: wow out of bunch of buildings hes restoring, the future wood storage building is in worse shape
06:48 PM xxcoder: it could almost be summed to "what building?"
06:51 PM Tom_L: i would shield the wire
06:51 PM Tom_L: as a precaution
06:51 PM Tom_L: silence means i was afk
06:53 PM Tom_L: xxcoder, just watching it is wearing me out
06:53 PM xxcoder: yeah me too. insane amount of work
06:54 PM xxcoder: 5 min left for me lol
06:55 PM xxcoder: love how he uses reclaimed wood as much as can
07:30 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> http://gumicsonak.ddns.net/nc/index.php/s/pdkRqzQYJsTqomg
07:30 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> good fit?
07:31 PM Tom_L: le_potato got le_vise
07:31 PM Tom_L: big enough
07:31 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> yup
07:31 PM xxcoder: my spine cries out on that sight. heavy I bet. besides that, looks good?
07:32 PM Tom_L: what size is it?
07:32 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> yes, meassured
07:32 PM xxcoder: 8" it looks like?
07:32 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> can hold 300mm amd weight 70kg
07:32 PM Tom_L: i'd think
07:32 PM Tom_L: don't drop it on your toe
07:32 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> 11.8"
07:32 PM xxcoder: nearly 12 inches wide?
07:33 PM Tom_L: i was offered an 8" kurt and said no
07:33 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> yes
07:33 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> this was 80$!
07:33 PM Tom_L: nice find
07:33 PM xxcoder: wow. my spine almost went out of me and ran away ;)
07:33 PM xxcoder: indeed good find
07:33 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> ty
07:34 PM Tom_L: gonna have room for your cylinder heads?
07:35 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> http://gumicsonak.ddns.net/nc/index.php/s/NsimroYBSEyqncd
07:35 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> xxcoder this is for scale
07:36 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> Tom_L: I making a holder for it
07:36 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> no head in vise
07:36 PM Tom_L: instead of the vise
07:36 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:36 PM Tom_L: fixture
07:36 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> that! 🙂
07:37 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> i have to make another spindle motor adapter for myself
07:37 PM Tom_L: your engrish is pretty good
07:37 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> and that stairs stuff for vise
07:37 PM lcnc-relay: <.le_potato@> balkan english
07:45 PM Tom_L: is the moving jaw on the vise tight?
07:51 PM xxcoder: almost certainly it will need some tuneup
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> the big mower (new holland) was getting hotter than I thought it should. Near the red line.. I checked the fluid and topped it off. it was a bit low. Didnt help
07:55 PM xxcoder: do it have fan for cooling?
07:55 PM xxcoder: if so, is it clear, and do it work?>
07:55 PM Tom_L: sediment in the radiator?
07:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> pulled the seat forward to get to the radiator.. There was a metal grid that was plugged with crap - and the radiator had a mouse nest distributed across it..
07:55 PM Tom_L: that would do it
07:55 PM xxcoder: fun
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> blew it out with water- seems fine now
07:56 PM Tom_L: thunder storms moving in here
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> that was last night
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> starlink had a global hiccough...
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> that is why I mowed..
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> internet went down - I rebooted the dish and it would not connect - then I got a text from a coworker that starlink was having a global outage..
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lol - global. that is crazy for an internet service
07:59 PM xxcoder: yeah. jt had same problem, but he had backup
07:59 PM xxcoder: that and outrage being hours long
07:59 PM xxcoder: dang
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I have a cell boster that gets me just enough signal to do a bit of surfing.
08:00 PM xxcoder: worse outrage I have experenced was comcast lol. apparently servers had this massive bug where if it gets a crash message from server thats crashing, to compense for, it would crash due to message handler bug.
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> well - we have had it since beta and it still is 1000X better than the dsl we had.
08:01 PM xxcoder: it lasted literally years just fine, then one server crashed
08:01 PM xxcoder: boom servers kept crashing each other and rebooting
08:01 PM xxcoder: it took them almost a week to fix
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> yikes
08:01 PM xxcoder: yeah. probably got them down to one 9
08:01 PM xxcoder: 90% lol
08:02 PM xxcoder: they had to hurry and dev a patch, then fix one server a time
08:02 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I think it is amazing it works at all - all be it - good enough that the kids don't even know that we have sat internet
08:02 PM xxcoder: whats latency like anyway
08:03 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> it averages around 30ms or so
08:03 PM xxcoder: not too bad. my phone internet access probably is just a little bit better
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I have a co-worker that is a huge online gamer - and he is very happy with the server (twitch games)
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> service
08:06 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> Tom_L: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ex3X2ioMvbNYYat67
08:09 PM roycroft: well, all my indicators work now
08:09 PM xxcoder: 🎉
08:09 PM roycroft: one more thing to check off the list
08:09 PM roycroft: and i've pullled the e-stop wires, but not connected them to the mesa board yet
08:09 PM roycroft: it's getting nigh on time to make dinner though
08:10 PM xxcoder: had yought. didnt feel like cooking lol
08:10 PM roycroft: i got some salmon
08:10 PM roycroft: i'm going to have baked potatoes with it, and green beans
08:10 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, got a few of em ehh
08:10 PM roycroft: the potatoes will take an hour
08:10 PM xxcoder: nice
08:11 PM roycroft: so i'll get started, and go work on the e-stop while they're cooking
08:11 PM roycroft: then i just have the encoder to do, and some wiring cleanup, which will wait until my jst cable gets here tomorrow or saturday or monday
08:12 PM Tom_L: did you run a wire for the probe?
08:12 PM roycroft: no
08:12 PM roycroft: i'll do that at some later point
08:12 PM roycroft: i'm still not happy with the probe jack and how it's mounted
08:12 PM roycroft: i might change it out for something else
08:12 PM roycroft: i also realized that i did not install an hour meter in the cabinet, so i should probably do that
08:12 PM roycroft: but then i have to decide what turns it on and what turns it off
08:13 PM xxcoder: hour meter?
08:13 PM roycroft: i put hour meters on almost everything i build or buy
08:13 PM roycroft: just so it's easy to keep track of maintenance intervals
08:13 PM xxcoder: oh runtime hours for machine
08:13 PM roycroft: yes
08:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Power_Meter.jpg
08:13 PM roycroft: and i'm thinking that spindle on should turn on the hour meter, and spindle off should turn it off
08:14 PM Tom_L: i had plans to hook that up to the sherline spindle
08:14 PM Tom_L: then i changed the spindle
08:14 PM xxcoder: yeah lubes and spindle bushings is highes likehood on needing maintance
08:14 PM roycroft: i use the old fashioned analog ones
08:15 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296134701011
08:15 PM roycroft: like that
08:16 PM roycroft: i always keep them in stock - i have a half dozen of them or so right now
08:16 PM xxcoder: nice! didnt know it existed
08:16 PM roycroft: buy a machine/build a machine - add an hour meter
08:16 PM xxcoder: if I had, I'd grab one for lubes and spindle checkups
08:16 PM roycroft: yup
08:16 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> https://photos.app.goo.gl/MyuNW4uKWMCwo9YC8
08:16 PM Tom_L: is that runtime hours or power on hours?
08:17 PM roycroft: there are fancy ones now that can email you or text you when you need to do maintenance
08:17 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> need to modify the cover
08:17 PM roycroft: depends on where you hook it up, tom_l
08:17 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, it came with the sponge pads right?
08:18 PM Tom_L: my cover fit but i had to modify the reset button
08:18 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that i'm using 3 of the 4 relays on that relay board
08:18 PM roycroft: i could use the fourth one for the hour meter
08:18 PM roycroft: and have it on when the spindle is on, and off when the spindle is off
08:18 PM roycroft: to me that seems the most logical way to track time on a router
08:18 PM Tom_L: spindle hours
08:19 PM roycroft: there should not be much motion on the axes when the spindle is not running
08:19 PM Tom_L: that's what shops charge for along with setup etc
08:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> yes - but the cover was designed to have a pad against the main silicon.
08:19 PM roycroft: and the spindle should almost only run when it's doing work
08:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> so that need to be mill/cut off
08:19 PM roycroft: so that's the important thing to track
08:19 PM xxcoder: its reasonable to assume machine is moving while spindle is on most times too
08:19 PM roycroft: yes
08:19 PM roycroft: of course, i did not wire up the 4th relay
08:20 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if i can squeeze another wire in the cable i built without taking the cabinet half apart again
08:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/screenshots/Current_Linuxcnc_Axis_screen.png
08:20 PM Tom_L: i used the cycle times to estimate how long a part should take
08:20 PM Tom_L: my cad comes pretty close
08:21 PM roycroft: i bet linuxcnc could keep track of spindle on hours for me
08:21 PM roycroft: i like physical, analog hour meters
08:21 PM Tom_L: current was the active tool and overall kept running
08:21 PM xxcoder: meh. that display is cool reardless anyway lol
08:22 PM roycroft: but to avoid having to remodel already my not-yet-complete cabinet, i might explore just having linuxcnc keep track for me
08:22 PM Tom_L: i put a cycle timer on the flex one i did
08:23 PM roycroft: a cycle timer would be useful if i were a job shop
08:23 PM roycroft: and maybe even for in-house stuff
08:23 PM xxcoder: wonder if can add another "box" on top for info displays
08:23 PM roycroft: but i'm mostly concerned with maintenance, so a cumulative hour meter would be most useful for me
08:24 PM roycroft: i think linuxcnc can work with multiple displays
08:24 PM roycroft: i'm not going to try that with this rpi-based controller
08:24 PM xxcoder: not displays, for the hours display, led lights etc
08:24 PM xxcoder: maybe even tachmeter display
08:25 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm very pleased that all three of my indicators were lit up just now (for the first time), and think it's a good time to take a break to start dinner
08:25 PM roycroft: i think the e-stop is going to be really easy - just connect the two wires, and about 10 lines of hal code, and it's done
08:25 PM roycroft: so hopefully that can happen while the potatoes are cooking
08:25 PM Tom_L: gonna use ladder for the tree?
08:26 PM roycroft: i am
08:26 PM roycroft: the first step was to get the indicators working
08:26 PM roycroft: the second will be to wire the mesa pins to the ladder
08:26 PM roycroft: the third will be to build the logic with the ladder
08:26 PM roycroft: and i still don't know about that part
08:26 PM Tom_L: i should explore ladder. i never felt i had a need for it
08:27 PM roycroft: i don't know how linuxcnc and the gcode can interact to trigger things
08:27 PM roycroft: such as, when a program starts, i want the green indicator to come on and the amber indicator to turn off
08:27 PM Tom_L: lemme check something..
08:27 PM Tom_L: yeah it keeps track of all that stuff
08:27 PM roycroft: when the program pauses for a tool change or i add an m0, i want the green indicator to blink
08:27 PM roycroft: i know i can get that from linuxcnc
08:27 PM xxcoder: sounds like you need to make logic transit graph
08:27 PM Tom_L: iocontrol probably has most of it
08:28 PM roycroft: i just don't know how yet
08:28 PM roycroft: i think it's all a bunch of defined variables
08:28 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/man/man1/iov2.1.html
08:28 PM roycroft: but i'll get to that point when i get to it
08:28 PM roycroft: i needed to have pins tied to indicators first, and i'm there now
08:29 PM Tom_L: that and halui
08:29 PM xxcoder: oh yes! state graph
08:29 PM xxcoder: been so long since college
08:29 PM roycroft: yeah, that's the stuff
08:29 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/man/man1/halui.1.html
08:29 PM roycroft: virtual "pins"
08:30 PM roycroft: that's kind of what classicladder is, xxcoder
08:30 PM xxcoder: ahh ok :)
08:30 PM roycroft: the ladder has inputs on the left, outputs on the right
08:30 PM roycroft: sometimes additional pins in the middle
08:30 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m62-m65
08:30 PM roycroft: and you add logic to the path from left to right
08:31 PM Tom_L: you might find a use for those too
08:31 PM roycroft: and, or, xor, etc.
08:31 PM roycroft: it's a drag-and-drop logic builder, essentially
08:31 PM xxcoder: https://ibb.co/VcHh7Q7L
08:31 PM roycroft: i have my outs all set up now for the indicators
08:31 PM roycroft: next i need to figure out the ins
08:32 PM roycroft: then i can build the ladder
08:32 PM xxcoder: pic is what I meant by state graph :)
08:34 PM roycroft: aah, that's slightly different
08:35 PM roycroft: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/ladder-examples.html
08:35 PM roycroft: that shows some simple examples of classicladder
08:35 PM xxcoder: interesting indeed
08:36 PM Tom_L: i wonder if it works in the sims
08:36 PM Tom_L: probably, once you add the hooks
08:36 PM roycroft: anyway, those spuds are not going to cook themselves, so i should go fire up the grill and get out to the kitchen
08:36 PM roycroft: i'm sure it does, tom_l
08:37 PM xxcoder: lol :)
09:28 PM roycroft: e-stop does not work as easily as i thought
09:29 PM roycroft: after dinner i'll spend more time on it
09:44 PM xxcoder: fun. hopefully taters will help you think about it
09:48 PM roycroft: it will work out
10:50 PM roycroft: well dinner is done, but a new episode of south park just dropped
10:51 PM roycroft: and apparently it has deal leader fuming
10:51 PM roycroft: so i'll have to watch that before i get back to the cnc controller
11:14 PM roycroft: oh my, i think comedy central are about to get sued for ONE BILLION BILLION DOLLARS
11:21 PM t4nk_fn: thnx for the reminder, roycroft :)