#linuxcnc Logs
May 23 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:26 AM Deejay: moin
04:14 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:27 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:43 AM Tom_L: morning
05:08 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:15 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as unterhausen
05:49 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> hi, can anyone explain what the capabilities/functional differences are between mesa cards, remora, and rio?
05:57 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> MESA and RIO is FPGA based, Remora with microcontrollers
05:58 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> Mesa is using a Softcore (CPU inside FPGA) and RIO is pure Logic
05:59 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> Remora and Mesa has purchasable hardware, RIO not, but many Board-Designs
06:02 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> lkrc@: I think RIO is the most flexible, but you can't ask me 🙂
06:17 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:37 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> i have some odd hardware (lcd, galvos) i need to connect, what do you think would be the best one to use for these?
06:39 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> depends on the interfaces of this hardware
06:40 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> a little more precise, please
06:45 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> lkrc@: if you have strange hardware that nobody supports and you can do some C(++), you are well served with Remora
06:54 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> meisterdippel@: the lcd should be a mipi-dsi interface, galvos take like ±10V to control their position iirc and also have some kind of encoder i need to read
06:58 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sde3c19804ef74388bcf90d292c32403eC.jpg
06:58 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> +-15V
07:00 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> you have to get the interface to the PC/Raspberry somehow, this is not possible with any RT controller
07:01 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> the +-10V or 15V can be used with all interfaces and a little bit extra hardware
07:02 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> Special encoders could become complicated
07:14 AM rdtsc-w: In my experience, a Langmuir CNC mill is 4000+ dollars, which seems like a lot of money... but is cheap in comparison to the time, effort, and expense of building anything similar from scratch. Some of us are smart, and some are gluttons for punishment.
07:19 AM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> hmmm
07:22 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> and some people like to tinker
07:23 AM rdtsc-w: sure, and nothing wrong with that... just tends to be harder than expected
07:33 AM Tom_L: i already know how to spend $4k... i like new experiences :)
07:35 AM Tom_L: if i were in a production shop, i'd buy new though
07:35 AM Tom_L: time spent retrofitting is also time lost on new clients
07:38 AM Tom_L: depending on how big the client they may even finance one for you
08:12 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> Tom_L: spending 4k is fun. (except the langmuir is more like 10k when you are done, ant it isn't even very good). if you have paying work, you buy a brother, or hass, or whatever is suited to the work. If you want to have some fun at home, then there's all sorts of more entertaining options.
08:22 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:50 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> that is the practical machinist mentality. If you can't afford to pay someone to fix your cnc - you are not charging enough. (which is probably true)
08:51 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> the practical machinist mentality is if you dont do what i do i will call you stupid
08:51 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i hate that place
08:51 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> they are strongly opinionated
10:29 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _gives pcw a cookie_
10:34 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> I have a question, I am revamping probe basic and probe basic lathe for added configurations and user customizability and have a question about multiaxis lathe setups and linuxcnc, specifically regarding main spindle/sub spindle both with C axis
10:36 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> From the brief research i've done, ot looks like sub soindles with C acis rotation are typically designated with a following number. C3 for example
10:38 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> I am wondering how to set something like this up in the ui or find out if its even possible with linuxcnc
10:38 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:39 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> I know W would be used for sun spindle linear motion
10:39 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> But not sure what or how sub spindle C axis should be handled
10:43 AM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> Has anyone in here successfully set something up with sub spindle with c axis with linuxcnc?
10:43 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> is there not an internal name(w) vs a dispaly name (c2) ?
10:44 AM rdtsc-w: also dyntaos, is it a 6 or 8-core system? isolcpus=5 means isolate core 5 only... on the rpi4/5 it uses isolcpus=2,3 meaning 0 and 1 are available to the scheduler and the other two are not - generally works well
10:44 AM pcw-home: (this affects all Ethernet and EtherCAT connected LinuxCNC devices)
11:00 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:00 AM dyntaos: @pcw-home Issue system:Lenovo M75s Gen2 Ryzen 5 Pro 5650G with RTL8161 onboard ethernet chipset (MESA) with TPLINK TG-3468 PCIe card (RTL8168) for internetThis system works:Lenovo Neo 50s with Intel CPU with RTL8111HN onboard ethernet chipset (MESA) with TPLINK TG-3468 PCIe card (RTL8168) for internet
11:00 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> RTL8168 = realtek
11:00 AM dyntaos: its a 6 core. isolcpu=5 means the last core, no? isnt it indexed from 0?
11:00 AM Tom_L: yes
11:00 AM rdtsc-w: it is; i'd try isolcpus=4,5 to give it two cores. more seems to work better (only way to tell is with a latency plot)
11:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:02 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:02 AM Tom_L: wish they'd quit putzing with the internet
11:02 AM rdtsc-w: https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-dual-band-5ghz-2-4ghz-usb-wifi-adapter-with-antenna/ - inexpensive USB Realtek RTL8811cu WiFi dongle, seems to work (only with morrownr's driver!), although haven't tested it for 20h straight.
11:03 AM dyntaos: I am going to try and use the PCIe NIC with the RTL8168 chipset for the MESA card. If that doesnt improve, I'll switch to the DKMS driver for it.
11:03 AM dyntaos: Nothing I using is wireless, all ethernet
11:04 AM dyntaos: that hardware-irq-coalesce-rx-usecs is familar but I cant recall where ive used it before
11:05 AM Tom_L: from what i hear you only need it on intel cards for lcnc
11:05 AM pcw-home: Yes mainly Intel (and maybe some other rarer manufacturers)
11:05 AM Tom_L: but if you can't get good results with realtek that may be an option
11:06 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> what ever is in the rpi5 seems ok
11:07 AM Tom_L: Broadcom BCM54213 chip
11:08 AM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> thats build into the main chip, or is it a separate thing?
11:08 AM dyntaos: Ok cool, thx
11:08 AM pcw-home: a horrible hack to try is to raise the error limit: setp hm2_7i96s.0.packet-error-limit 30
11:08 AM Tom_L: sounds like a separate chip
11:11 AM Tom_L: i should get one so i can have as much fun as rdtsc-w
11:12 AM rdtsc-w: https://www.broadcom.com/products/ethernet-connectivity/phy-and-poe/copper/gigabit/bcm54213pe
11:15 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lol - what problems? I am using the onboard wifi for internet access and ethernet for mesa. Seems ok
11:15 AM Tom_L: cool
11:16 AM Tom_L: what's it running?
11:16 AM Tom_L: green machine, lathe???
11:17 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lathe
11:17 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> the other one is running retropi.. lol
11:17 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> a 4 is running the green machine
11:18 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lathe has been on for days at a time without issues.
12:24 PM JT-Mobile: Yo
01:05 PM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> can i use riocore with a basys 3?
01:05 PM lcnc-relay: <lkrc@> i have one laying around and wanna test it out
03:53 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> How do people generally handle controlling machines with no linear encoders
03:54 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i have very nice AC servos by estun (20bit encoders) but i have no feedback, so i just rely that they will do what i need them to do
03:54 PM roycroft: one uses stepper motors and proceeds cautiously
03:54 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> which isnt always the case, especially in dynamic operations like threading
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i cant vary the rpm in the middle of a threading operation
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> sodakaustik@: bascially, linuxcnc is usally run blind. open loop. its mostly fine as long as the servo can send an alarm to stop the control if it crashes.
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you CAN run feedback, but... in my experience its more trouble than its worth
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> im doing this exactly
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> im thinking of getting linear encoders
03:56 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> linear encoders wont do anything
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> may they not be used for feedback?
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> * can
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you need to be in velocity (or torque) mode if you want to use feedback to actually control position
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> thats fine by me
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> hmm
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> it wont be when you try to tune it 😛
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> except... i have a pulse-dir control board
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> well that too
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> youd need a mesa analogue board
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> PID tuning is my fortè and my machine is incredibly light
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> (or maybe ethercat but thats a separate ball of worms)
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> so youre saying i should stick to open loop
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> well you can give it a try then
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i personally would (and do).
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> what about feedforwarding (on the servodrive level)
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> im scared to try it
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you tune the servos independantly
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i just went through tuning my omron servos a while ago.
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> it bugs me that different cutting speeds yield different results
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> (its a lathe)
04:00 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> oh, well thats a whole different issue
04:00 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
04:00 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i meant feed speeds*
04:03 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you mean feeding speed vs cutting result?
04:04 PM roycroft: i'm no expert on this by any means, and am not attempting to be argumentative here, but my limited understanding is that servo motors should always be used closed-loop, as they tend to overshoot when they do not have a feedback loop, and steppers can be used open loop as long as one can reasonably ensure that steps are not being dropped/missed
04:04 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> no
04:04 PM roycroft: if you're saying that servos can be used open loop then i would appreciate a bit more information on how that works - links would be ok
04:05 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> open loop CONTROL. a servo is by definition closed loop at the drive. thats the literal definition
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Sounds like @Lunar has poorly tuned drives so the following error is high.
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> littleshopofrandom@: yes
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> sodakaustik@: well thats just machining 😛
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> zincboy_ca_on@: possibly yeah
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i mean dynamic error
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> That is following error.
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> my drives are tuned via the scope functions
04:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> yes
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i have carefully examined their behaviour
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> drives should (usually) be tuned by the manufacturers software
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> the higher the acceleration and speed, the higher the error
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> the manufacturer software's integrated self-scoping function
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> is what i used
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> some of the cheap servos are pretty crude though
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> like JMC
04:07 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> If threading operations are not working because the axis position is not correct, then the drives are not tuned sufficiently.
04:08 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i use estun
04:08 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> You likely need to use feed-forward terms in your servo tuning, you need to get as close to zero dynamic error as possible.
04:08 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> im not saying they arent working, i have 30 000mm/s velocity and around 5000mm/s² accelerations on them
04:09 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i just get different results
04:09 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> yes, i think i need feedforward
04:09 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> on the drive level
04:09 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i came to ask about this
04:09 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> is it how its done?
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Velocity and acceleration are irrelevant. Your P, I, D and FF terms need to be set so that dynamic error is minimized. This is drive dependent and I don't think we can help with that.
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> say i cut a thread at 500rpm
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and 700rpm
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> oh, yes, feedforwards should almost always be at 100%
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> the 700rpm thread will be shifted
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> it will be "late"
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> that corrects lag in foloowing
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> but perfectly consistent
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> ah i see
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> ill do that.
04:10 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and report back :)
04:11 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> tune the motor "down" first a bit though. it might freak out haha
04:11 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i cant send images, the lathe im talking about is spectacularly precise for what it is
04:11 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> if the gain is too high
04:11 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> good idea
04:12 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i have some "singing" occasionally when the planets align
04:12 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> very slight vibration on the long ballscrew (Z axis is 1.2 meter long)
04:12 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> wowowowowowoow. not great singing heheh
04:13 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> its quiet and usually lasts just a few seconds, its audible but cant be felt unless you touch the motor coupler
04:13 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my jmcs took a long while to tune (no autotuning). the omrons you press a button and it figures it all out in about 20 seconds.
04:13 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> yea i didnt get yaskawas because of marco reps's estun recommendation
04:13 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> also yaskawas are 2x
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Probably hunting. Bouncing between a few LSB on the encoder.
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 20bits tho...
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 2 million pulses and still?
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i think im hitting a vibrational mode
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> yeskawas are 24 bit. but yeah, like $1000 an axis even from china
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> on the long screw
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> sounds like 200hz by ear
04:14 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> if theres any resonance usually you pull back on the gain a notch.
04:15 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i cant find a low pass filter for the servo internal torque gain
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> for some reason
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> they have like 4838282 parameters
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha yeah
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> chinese servos are no joke... theyre quite decent actually
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> but thank you guys for the info, i was cautious with feedforward
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> turns out 100% ff can be a good idea
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> not can, is.
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> thats why i was so happy with the autotuning. push button. done. its also adaptive to resonance. let it run for a minute and it will go away. it "learns". i guess thats what you get when you pay a lot for a servo
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> zincboy_ca_on@: id call it 100% mandatory
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i knew im missing something
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> I really like the yaskawa drives. Work great, no issues and the price is not that bad.
04:18 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i also use rigid couplers
04:18 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HibkocVn1U
04:18 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and preloaded ballscrews
04:18 PM roycroft: there is some nice computer singing
04:18 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> price is relative. lichuans are $90usd ;x
04:18 PM roycroft: sip to about 24:57 for the good music
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> so all of this mass has no choice but to move even at very snall oscillations of the servo
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> sodakaustik@: oh thats a very bad idea usually. disc is what most machines will use.
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> I watched the videos on bringing that computer back to life and it is really impressive. Now just have to port linuxcnc to it 🙂
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> im scared of torsional twist inaccuracy
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> sodakaustik@: disc has no inacuracy
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> disc is okay
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Are you scared of bearing life? Cause you should be with solid couplers.
04:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> the rubber rotax ones are aweful
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> zincboy_ca_on@ i am
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> yeah id get rid of those right away
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> double discs are pretty cheap, even for high end ones at misumi
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> what about those bellow type couplers
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> bellows are ok too.
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> but ive never used one
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> almost every vmc will have disc
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i think ill stick to disc couplers
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> My mill has solid couplers from the factory (Hitachi-Seiki VK45) and I replace the ball screw support bearings on a regular basis.
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my brothers had disc
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> yeah im worried about this too
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> solid couplers bad
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> as a mechanical engineering student they make my head explode
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> but i still used them... temporarily
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> (it has been a year)
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> before you tighten up the motor bolts you can SEE the whole motor wiggle whern the ball screw spins
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> not on mine...
04:23 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i actually made my own solid couplers because i didnt trust any of the ones on the market's runout
04:24 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> just did both bores in one pass
04:24 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i even split them before boring them
04:24 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> but still imperfect
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i dont trust ball screw end machining runout
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> heh
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> facts.
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i bought preloaded hiwin ballscrews and they were both factory bent
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ive seen some horrific screw.
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> "real" hiwin?
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> from the local hiwin dealer
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> official one
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ah ok
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> yep
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i only use factory machine ground screws now
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> nsk and rexroth is wayy too expensive for me
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> (nsk on the current machine, thk on the big one)
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> rexroth is bad. nsk isnt bad.
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> (at misumi)
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> why is rexroth bad
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> price
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> well....yes
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i got the highest non-ground spec by hiwin
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> theyre quite beautiful honestly
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and i did test the play with a microns indicator
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 2 micrometers is okay
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> ✓
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> problem with rolled is the preload is variable so they wear fast and heat up when run fast. so they will have backlash in a year or 2 depending how you run them
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i run them overlubed
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> that wont help.
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> it unhelps
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> with heat
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> In that they will get hotter, yes.
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha. maybe
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> yep
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> unless you pump so much oil that you start cooling them 🫨
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my TBI (yuck) z axis screw would get so hot it would burn your hand at 2000rpm
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and one of them is so heavily preloaded i could hardly turn it by hand
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> when i was assembling
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> um. what diam?
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> idk why...
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 25
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> pitch 10mm
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> probably not the preaload by thre wiper seal
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> lathe is 165x750 travels
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> That is way, way too much preload.
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my nsk 25mm screw next to my desk here (new never used) spind free
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> i mean i COULD turn it
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> but it was difficult
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> because its slippery
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> and vecause its preloaded as fck
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> * because its preloaded as f
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hm
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> im going seal
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> hopefully
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> preload should have almost no perceptible drag by had
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hand
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> which is what i thought too
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> anyhow
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> it makes no sense
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> the seals on my bosch linear rails will hold the Z axis up. seals are tight
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hah
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> its funny to see a 2510 screw for a 165mm travel
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> mine is.... 290? z screw. nice and beefy
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> but i have no need for it
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> used a thk 2010 instead
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 290mm diameter screw
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha, no, 2510. 290 length
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik@> 😂
04:36 PM JT-Shop: https://paste.pics/f15b7d12c44bf8f768403d6b2742a179
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> 404
04:40 PM xxcoder: yeah 404 here also
04:44 PM JT-Shop: https://paste.pics/TBTHQ
05:02 PM Tom_L: full load
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I could feel it behind me all the way home
05:10 PM Tom_L: mileage didn't change much
05:10 PM xxcoder: its low enough to avoid much of air drag
05:11 PM xxcoder: so heaviest effect on mpg would be at accerations
05:11 PM xxcoder: if he had slow starts then it wont be too big
05:12 PM Tom_L: hope they didn't stab the side with a forklift
05:15 PM JT-Shop: a bit of rash on one part but just cosmetic
06:13 PM rdtsc: a little late to the party, but sodakaustic, if the servo drive reads the servo's encoder, and that drive has a digital interface (step/dir etc), then the drive should make the motor go to the indicated angle, using whatever current is necessary (and if not, signal a flag, which you can interpret as fail and stop the machine.) In this scenario, no other encoder (nor PID loop) is necessary.
06:13 PM rdtsc: If the drive takes +/-10V and does not use the encoder, then it will definitely need an external PID loop
06:16 PM rdtsc: and LinuxCNC to read the encoder (and set the PID accordingly) - such could be quite challenging to tune well
06:18 PM * roycroft thought sodakaustic said there were no encoders for the servo motors
06:18 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you thought wrong
06:19 PM rdtsc: [16:43] <lcnc-relay> <sodakaustik@> i have very nice AC servos by estun (20bit encoders) but i have no feedback, so i just rely that they will do what i need them to do
06:19 PM roycroft: that is entirely possible
06:19 PM roycroft: i am wrong on a regular basis
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> not me. nope. never.. .nope....
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _cough_
06:21 PM rdtsc: most servo motors include an encoder today, which is nice
06:21 PM xxcoder: 👖🔥
06:21 PM rdtsc: but we don't know anything about their drive
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> rdtsc: the main point was that linuxcnc is running blind (the servo drive is not) and he did not know how linuxcnc would correct lag (it wont and doesnt need to)
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> just needs ff on the drive set right and retuned
06:23 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> feed forward is mandatory if you want to keep position while in motion, rather than just at end points.
06:23 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> and of course thats what any cnc lathe or mill needs
06:25 PM rdtsc: if using PID's, yes... seem to recall some info on how to set FF and other values for testing, perhaps in the docs
06:27 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc-old/tuning/index.html
06:28 PM rdtsc: JT for the win :)
06:28 PM rdtsc: hmm... okay, so what does it mean when you have a /dev/spidev0.0 but mesaflash --device 7c80 --spi --addr /dev/spidev0.0 returns absolutely nothing... just a new terminal prompt?
06:28 PM JT-Shop: spi might be a Tom_L question or a pcw-home question
06:29 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> it means its on cofee break i think
06:29 PM rdtsc: hehehe indeed
06:29 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _runs_
06:30 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> @rdtsc is that on a pi5?
06:30 PM rdtsc: yes
06:31 PM rdtsc: it used to work, reloaded SD card
06:31 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> what version of mesaflash u have installed?
06:31 PM rdtsc: 3.5.10
06:31 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> pi5 needs to be built from master, unless the repos finally got updated
06:31 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> lemme check mine, one sec
06:33 PM rdtsc: looks like 3.4.9-1 is available in the pi5 repos, so have newer than that
06:36 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> ls /dev/spi*
06:36 PM lcnc-relay: shows 3 devices?
06:37 PM rdtsc: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/mesaflash is 3.5.13, same with that one. yes, have spidev0.0, 0.1, and 10.0
06:38 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> gah.... that didn't get a release tag.
06:38 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> i think mine is somewhere around 3.5.10pre (built from master at the time)
06:39 PM rdtsc: only me! heheheh
06:42 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> 3.5.11 is what i have
06:43 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> just walked down to check, ssh is dead for some reason
06:43 PM rdtsc: built the latest 3.5.13 and that too, returns nothing... very werid
06:44 PM rdtsc: cd ..
06:44 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> card has external power?
06:46 PM rdtsc: yep, 7c80 is a host for the rpi, no red led, so FPGA appears to be running
06:46 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> hrm, i'm at a loss
07:00 PM rdtsc: thanks for taking a look. nothing telling in dmesg
07:08 PM Tom_L: lemme see if i still have my spi notes
07:13 PM Tom_L: not on any drives i have hooked up atm
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> i think it has to be ran under sudo
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: sudo mesaflash --device 7c80 --addr /dev/spidev0.0 --spi --readhmid
07:14 PM Tom_L: yes
07:14 PM Tom_L: likely
07:15 PM Tom_L: not all devices do but some do
07:15 PM Tom_L: pci do
07:15 PM Tom_L: i know
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> Makes sense that spi would as well
07:15 PM Tom_L: you command line looks ok
07:15 PM Tom_L: if that's the right spi device
07:16 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> works on my pi5 with 7c80
07:17 PM Tom_L: try without sudo
07:18 PM Tom_L: see if it errors
07:19 PM rdtsc: interesting! somehow the --readhmid was missing from my command (shell script "mf") - works fine once properly written
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> lol
07:19 PM Tom_L: i missed that in your post too... don't feel bad :)
07:20 PM * rdtsc needs an adult beverage or something
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> same here, I just pasted from my pi5 setup doc
07:20 PM Tom_L: ok back out to the shop to update my flex gui
07:24 PM Tom_L: helps if you grab the right ui file
07:44 PM roycroft: i finally was able to remove one of the pieces of rebar from my front yard
07:44 PM roycroft: the pipe wrench and lever thing that jt suggested had no effect at all
07:45 PM roycroft: i ended up banging the end of the rebar to bend it a little, then upsetting the very tip of it a bit, then wrapping a chain around it a few times and yanking it out with a 2 ton engine hoist
07:45 PM roycroft: and i had to pump pretty hard to get the hoist to pull it
07:45 PM roycroft: it was rusty and rock-encrusted and twisted and bent underground
07:46 PM roycroft: anyway, one down, four to go, but my back is not ready for any more of that today
07:46 PM xxcoder: fun. I bet it'd be easier if it was stright in
07:47 PM xxcoder: but bent inside ground geez
07:47 PM roycroft: a bit easier, but probably still pretty tough
07:47 PM roycroft: rebar is nasty stuff to work with
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I have bent and wired up way too much rebar..
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> big mower still runs..
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GxsTpFrGuu2poCjL8
07:51 PM Tom_L: ok flex all up to date on the mill. had to add a new deb as well
07:53 PM roycroft: i think that rebar is fine when it's embedded properly in concrete, as one should never have to deal with it again
07:54 PM roycroft: but when used as stakes and whatever, that's where i start questioning people's sanity
07:55 PM roycroft: traditional rebar is also becoming obsolete - there are new, plastic-based products with similar tensile strength that do not corrode over time, even if there is water infiltration in the concrete
08:24 PM _unreal_: just got the highlights but the house is in wonderful condition
08:24 PM _unreal_: and no bugs
08:24 PM _unreal_: for a stick built
08:37 PM roycroft: nice, _unreal_
08:37 PM roycroft: where are you at in the process? have you made an offer? has it been accepted? when is the closing date?
08:37 PM _unreal_: the more I look
08:37 PM _unreal_: I'm under contract
08:37 PM roycroft: ok
08:37 PM _unreal_: $410
08:38 PM _unreal_: k
08:38 PM roycroft: so it's inspection time
08:38 PM _unreal_: was inspected today
08:38 PM roycroft: and the title search is complete?
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pizza time?
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> "i have a house" time
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
08:38 PM roycroft: i'm caramelizing the onions now, littleshopofrandom
08:38 PM roycroft: pizza will be ready in about 45 minutes
08:39 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> most people will never get a house
08:39 PM _unreal_: so the more I look at tthis house. its really perfect
08:39 PM _unreal_: I'm considering building an outside kitchen
08:39 PM _unreal_: I have everything
08:39 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _unreal_: mine needs to be torn down
08:39 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> but i knew that
08:39 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> it was cheap (in relative terms)
08:40 PM roycroft: in the us, roughly 2/3 of people live in a house owned by the head of household
08:40 PM _unreal_: I have a 3 or 4 I forget 1/8th 316 stainless 5'x10' sheets
08:40 PM _unreal_: would be amazing
08:40 PM roycroft: that number varies by a bit, but it's been remarkably consistent since the early '60s
08:40 PM _unreal_: nice outdoors back yard kitchen
08:41 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> stainless kitchen would nice nice. 1/8" is way heavy. usually they are 1mm or so
08:41 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> or less
08:41 PM _unreal_: for ever kitchen
08:41 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> (with wood inside the countertop)
08:42 PM _unreal_: south florida wood = :S maybe
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my outdoor stuff is redcedar
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> but its so expensive
08:43 PM _unreal_: I have a lot of teak wood in storage
08:43 PM _unreal_: not enough to build anything like housing
08:43 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> that can work
08:43 PM roycroft: i should think that in florida cypress would be the most common wood for outdoor furniture
08:44 PM _unreal_: I guess
08:44 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> maple
08:44 PM _unreal_: I have all the tools to do anything
08:44 PM roycroft: maple is not very durable
08:44 PM _unreal_: I'd likely just go with steel and weld together a frame
08:44 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> maple is one of the most durable woods
08:44 PM roycroft: cypress, redwood, and cedar are the three woods that are most durable outdoors in the us
08:44 PM _unreal_: and and coat it with the stainless
08:44 PM _unreal_: then TIG everything
08:45 PM roycroft: mahogany and teak are pretty good if you want imported woods
08:45 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> mahogany cant go outside
08:45 PM _unreal_: I'm dieing for a Tiki
08:45 PM roycroft: ok, so now we know that littleshopofrandom knows nothing about wood
08:45 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> anyhow. stainless top, with cement board stucco over a steel frame.
08:46 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> roycroft: if you say so
08:46 PM roycroft: indeed, i do
08:46 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> cool story
08:47 PM _unreal_: ! crap I'm going to need to refill my argon tank :)(
08:47 PM _unreal_: :(
08:47 PM roycroft: white oak is also fairly durable
08:47 PM roycroft: so there are four north american woods that are suitable for outdoors
08:47 PM _unreal_: I may go with something but regardless any wood would be for counter tops if anything
08:48 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ha no. i have all white oak floors. not as bad as red oak, but it gets super damaged by any water
08:48 PM roycroft: it will stain
08:48 PM roycroft: but it won't rot
08:48 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> it rots
08:48 PM roycroft: ok, so i was wrong
08:48 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> everything rots ha
08:48 PM roycroft: littleshopofrandom does know about wood
08:49 PM roycroft: but he knows opposite about wood, not reality about wood
08:49 PM _unreal_: I'm also torn between building my own cooking setup or buying a grill?
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> black locust is supposed to be good. they build a lot of bike trail features from it
08:49 PM roycroft: you are talking to a woodworker with 50ish years of experience, btw
08:49 PM _unreal_: hate todays grills though they just go to shi....t bad
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _unreal_: napoleon grill
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> with pizza stones
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> mmm
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
08:50 PM roycroft: buy a grill and build a pizza oven
08:50 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i only have a cheapie grill, buit its nice
08:50 PM _unreal_: I'm not doing any kind of outdoor pizza oven
08:50 PM xxcoder: it'd be interesting to build big stone grill
08:50 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _unreal_: the cost so mugh
08:50 PM xxcoder: but I wouldnt need it at all so eh
08:50 PM roycroft: i may build one, after i get my shop remodel/extension done and some remodeling inside the house
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ive seen granite plates on grills. griddle?
08:51 PM roycroft: i would love a nice outdoor wood-fired pizza oven
08:51 PM _unreal_: littleshop what cost so mugh?
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> wood pizza oven
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> well, a proper one. not the little table ones
08:52 PM _unreal_: I wouldnt use one often enough to spend the time and money
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> yeah
08:52 PM xxcoder: same
08:52 PM roycroft: if i could use my shop scraps to bake my pizzas that would be awesome
08:52 PM _unreal_: I do make a lot of homemade pizza but in the kitchen oven
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my grill does pretty good pizza. it only gets to 550f though
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> id like an oven that did 700
08:52 PM * roycroft makes pizza every friday night, and probably would do so more often with a proper pizza oven
08:52 PM * _unreal_ pictures roycroft using pine
08:52 PM _unreal_: num num...s
08:52 PM roycroft: but even once/week would make it worthwhile
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pine pizza?
08:53 PM _unreal_: heh
08:53 PM roycroft: i use pine for lots of things
08:53 PM roycroft: it doesn't burn too hot, though, so it would be suboptimal as pizza energy
08:53 PM _unreal_: :(S) cooking?
08:53 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> white oak is good for pizza
08:53 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> or maple.
08:53 PM roycroft: white oak does burn hot
08:53 PM _unreal_: maybe a marsh mellow
08:53 PM roycroft: as does hard maple
08:54 PM roycroft: so littleshopofrandom is correct about at least a couple things wood-related
08:54 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> you could burn dominos pizzas to bae your own
08:54 PM roycroft: i've never had a dominos pizza
08:54 PM roycroft: i have no idea how well they burn
08:54 PM _unreal_: been prob 20 years since I've had dominos
08:54 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> i classify them as "somewhat edible"
08:55 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> theres worse aroung here
08:55 PM roycroft: and the nearest dominos to here is an hour's drive, so i doubt they would deliver
08:55 PM _unreal_: last time I had pizza hut was when Ii was still in maine
08:55 PM roycroft: i do not feel my life incomplete having never experienced one, though
08:55 PM roycroft: it's never gotten even remotely close to my bucket list
08:55 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pizza hut is good. but note that pizza hut in canada is not at all the same as usa pizza hut. which is gross
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pizza pizza is the worst here. id rather eat the box
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> 😛
08:57 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _just ate an entire lemon pie_
08:58 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> back to cats. i wish i knew what i was doing haha
08:58 PM roycroft: i've had pizza hut pizza before
08:58 PM roycroft: it is edible
08:58 PM roycroft: it's not good at all
08:58 PM roycroft: i suspect most of the big chain pizza places are like that
08:58 PM xxcoder: I prefer cheese sticks than pizza there
08:59 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> home made pizza is best
08:59 PM xxcoder: and yeah after cuts, their budget paper is perfectly round
08:59 PM xxcoder: I arent got skills for that lol
08:59 PM roycroft: homemade pizza can be very good
08:59 PM roycroft: there are some really good pizza places in eugene (where i used to live)
08:59 PM roycroft: in fact, my friends and i are going to one next week
09:00 PM _unreal_: I make amazing homemade pizza
09:00 PM roycroft: https://www.restaurantji.com/or/eugene/osteria-dop-/menu/
09:00 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _unreal_: mines better
09:00 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> 😛
09:00 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hehe
09:00 PM roycroft: tonight's pizza will be a marinara sauce
09:00 PM _unreal_: nothing like making dough from scratch
09:01 PM roycroft: i'll be adding anchovies, roasted red peppers, kalmata olives, and yukon gold potatos as the toppings
09:01 PM _unreal_: I have a nice pro kitchen aid mixer
09:01 PM roycroft: with fontana, mozzarella, and paremsan cheese
09:01 PM roycroft: i don't make the dough from scratch very often, just because it takes so long
09:01 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pineapple is the only valid pizza topping
09:01 PM roycroft: but there's a place in eugene that make great dough, and i get theirs, with rosemary, most of the time
09:02 PM roycroft: so littleshopofrandom also has opposite knowledge of pizza toppings :)
09:02 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> dough from scratch takes 10 mins (then 2 hours to 2 days of waiting). just need a little planning.
09:02 PM roycroft: there are them that argue that pineapple is the only invalid pizza topping
09:03 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> roycroft: those people will be executed
09:03 PM roycroft: my personal opinion is that if it's you want then do it
09:03 PM roycroft: different strokes for different folks
09:03 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> conform to the pineapple
09:04 PM * roycroft would figure littleshopofrandom for a poutine pizza fan
09:04 PM _unreal_: dough does NOT need 2 days to produce
09:04 PM roycroft: or maybe back bacon pizza with velveeta
09:04 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> poutine is gross. potatoes are gross
09:04 PM roycroft: if it's sourdough it does
09:04 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> _unreal_: i said 2 hours to 2 day.
09:05 PM roycroft: usually it takes me about 15 minutes to make dough, then a 1 hour rest, then punch down and a few minutes of additional kneading, then a half hour rest, then ready to roll out and toss
09:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> flavour and texture gets a bit nicer the second day
09:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> but it depends
09:06 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> my dough is super high hydration as well. almost 100%
09:07 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> anyhow. etherial cats...
09:08 PM roycroft: i've had pineapple on pizza before
09:08 PM roycroft: it was not bad, but i did not seem balance
09:09 PM roycroft: i am pescatarian, though, and i think that pineapple paired with ham or sausage on a pizza would be much better
09:09 PM roycroft: but since i don't that stuff, i avoid pineapple
09:09 PM roycroft: on pizza
09:09 PM roycroft: i do not otherwise avoid it
09:10 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> pineapple pizza was invented near me
09:10 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> seems an od thing to claim you invented
09:13 PM roycroft: and difficult, i should think, to document and proove
09:14 PM roycroft: and i'm not saying i don't believe you
09:14 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> its a well known documented fact.
09:14 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> hawaiian pizza is from canada
09:15 PM roycroft: teh wikipedia says that hawaiian pizza was invented in canada
09:15 PM roycroft: which is not pineapple pizza
09:15 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> same thing
09:15 PM roycroft: it's pineapple pizza with ham or sausage, as i described earlier
09:16 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> ham or bacon
09:16 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> no saussage involved
09:16 PM roycroft: in my view, pineapple pizza would be pizza with pineapple on it and nothing else
09:16 PM lcnc-relay: <littleshopofrandom@> that would be an abomination
09:16 PM roycroft: ok, ham or bacon
09:16 PM roycroft: the point is still that describing a one-topping pizza implies one topping
09:20 PM roycroft: half of the national security council just got fired
09:21 PM roycroft: a mix of career workers and political appointees
09:48 PM roycroft: yay
09:49 PM roycroft: pizza finally in the oven
09:53 PM xxcoder: thats good, im on way to you
09:55 PM roycroft: anchovies tonight
09:55 PM roycroft: be aware of that before you leave :)
09:55 PM xxcoder: lol
09:56 PM xxcoder: dont think I ever had that