#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 17 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:03 AM rifraf: some progress images on the 5C collect release https://desire3d.com/images/public/5C_Headstock1.jpg https://desire3d.com/images/public/5C_Headstock2.jpg
04:20 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer@> Morning
05:45 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
11:11 AM lcnc-relay: <huursabg@> Tom_L: if thats the case does that mean they can just go straight in?
11:39 AM Au70 is now known as pklopping
01:25 PM Tom_L: huursabg, don't follow your questino
01:26 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcoder@> huursabg@: quotes dont work across bridge btw, so you probably want to say what question is for 🙂
01:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> oxtools!
02:01 PM roycroft: tom lipton can be kind of smug, but he does mostly know his stuff
02:01 PM roycroft: he's one of those people whose videos i can watch, but only for so long at a go
02:03 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> maybe. I have made comments on his projects and he wasn't defensive and actually thougth they might be good ideas.. Which is suprising
02:03 PM roycroft: i think he's probably a really good guy
02:04 PM roycroft: but he kind of reminds me of that nycnc guy
02:04 PM roycroft: whose videos i cannot watch for more than 10 seconds
02:04 PM xxcoder: oxtools. guys nice but couldnt watch his videos, got tired of so many "bbq sessions" and no other content for quite a while. heard he changed now but yeah
02:04 PM roycroft: he also strikes me as a pretty genuine, decent guy, but comes across as very arrogant in his videos
02:05 PM roycroft: lipton doesn't seem arrogant so much as smug
02:05 PM roycroft: but he could be a great guy to have beers with
02:15 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> lol - meatloaf..
02:47 PM xxcoder: yah meatloaf is what I meant lol
02:51 PM roycroft: hot patootie, bless my soul
02:51 PM roycroft: i really love that rock and roll
04:00 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:00 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:02 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://www.kurtworkholding.com/product/kurt-bridgeport-series-i-std-2-j/
04:02 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/powerdbar-maxi-vari/
04:03 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> easy enuff to make but not everyone is a meachankal geneous
04:05 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://www.cnccookbook.com/power-drawbar-milling-machine-bridgeport-spindle-kurt/
04:09 PM Tom_L: capn, when you purge the old files does that require a reboot before installing the new debs?
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen@> I wish my bp would take a drawbar of any kind. The ballscrew spindle precludes that.
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> ballscrew spindle? have a pic?
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Tom_L: no reboots required except to change kernels
04:33 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen@> I don't have a picture handy, and google hates this search term
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> yeah it does
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> is it this?
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> http://www.fignoggle.com/machines/bridgeport/bridgeport-boss-teardown.htm
04:35 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen@> looks similar, but I have a rigid ram head
04:35 PM Tom_L: capt: error encountered while processing: linuxcnc
04:35 PM Tom_L: purged all of linuxcnc & 5.4.279 then installed the debs in order
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> huh, worked here on two different machines
04:36 PM Tom_L: even booted back to preempt-rt as the old kernel was gone
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I'm pretty much giving up on Debian now
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> to much crap like this
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> too/to
04:37 PM Tom_L: how can i check which linuxcnc package is installed if any?
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> memleak wasted a whole fucking day on this
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> use Synaptic and search for LinuxCNC
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> see which version comes up
04:41 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:41 PM Tom_dev: capn: https://paste.debian.net/1350438/
04:41 PM Tom_L: booten in 5.4.290
04:41 PM Tom_L: booted
04:42 PM Tom_dev: Linux bookworm 5.4.290-rtai-amd64 #1 SMP Sun Feb 16 14:27:43 CST 2025 x86_64 GNU/Linux
04:42 PM memleak: oh nice you're on my kernel!
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> please wait for memleak to help, I'm moving on with what is left of my life
04:42 PM memleak: so what's the issue, walk me through
04:43 PM Tom_dev: Errors were encountered while processing:
04:43 PM Tom_dev: linuxcnc
04:43 PM memleak: can you post the full output with the command to a paste?
04:43 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350438/
04:43 PM Tom_dev: that's the linuxcnc error list
04:44 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350439/
04:44 PM Tom_dev: and the linuxcnc deb output
04:45 PM memleak: sudo apt install libgtksourceview-4-dev
04:45 PM Tom_dev: installing
04:45 PM memleak: then try installing it with apt instead of dpkg
04:46 PM memleak: `sudo apt install ./<linuxcnc.deb here>`
04:46 PM Tom_dev: it installed that time
04:46 PM memleak: noice
04:46 PM Tom_dev: sim came up
04:46 PM memleak: nice
04:47 PM Tom_dev: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/flexgui/linuxcnc2.9.4.png
04:47 PM memleak: awesome!
04:47 PM memleak: also you can try pci=nomsi on the kernel command line to take care of the warning
04:47 PM Tom_dev: i just caught the dependency after i posted that
04:48 PM Tom_dev: thanks
04:49 PM memleak: if it's n issue that keeps popping up on various hardware, i can blacklist MSI in Kconfig
04:49 PM memleak: (Message Signaled Interrupts)
04:49 PM memleak: i think one guy on the forum had it too
04:49 PM Tom_dev: i for one appreciate your efforts
04:50 PM memleak: thanks!
04:50 PM memleak: i know you asked me about a later kernel with linuxcnc 2.9.4
04:50 PM Tom_dev: it'll be a while before i test on hardware
04:51 PM Tom_dev: -5F this week here and i'm not goin out to the shop
04:51 PM memleak: can you try pci=nomsi and see if the trace disappears?
04:51 PM Tom_dev: what warning?
04:51 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> they just canceled school for tomorrow...
04:51 PM memleak: your traceback
04:51 PM Tom_dev: and where do i put that?
04:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> kernel line
04:52 PM memleak: WARNING: CPU: 1 PID: 1552 at arch/x86/kernel/apic/msi.c:105 msi_set_affinity+0x11f/0x160
04:52 PM Tom_dev: in grub config on the kernel parameters?
04:52 PM memleak: where you'd theoretically put isolcpus
04:52 PM Tom_dev: quiet isolcpus=2,3 idle=poll
04:52 PM Tom_dev: that's what i have currently
04:52 PM memleak: yeah there
04:53 PM memleak: just add pci=nomsi and see if it's better
04:53 PM Tom_dev: along with or in place of?
04:53 PM memleak: along with
04:53 PM Tom_dev: ok
04:53 PM Tom_dev: requires a reboot..
04:53 PM memleak: yes
04:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:55 PM Tom_dev: so what am i looking for?
04:55 PM memleak: do whatever you did to get that trace from before, did you just start linuxcnc?
04:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> getting close.. https://photos.app.goo.gl/D6srdkZRkqxaQKY89
04:56 PM Tom_dev: yeah but it went away after installing the dependency
04:56 PM memleak: gtksourceview would have nothing to do with MSI
04:56 PM Tom_dev: i don't know how to reproduce it
04:57 PM memleak: try starting either latency-histogram, latency-test or linuxcnc
04:57 PM memleak: then run dmesg and look for a giant trace
04:57 PM memleak: that should trigger it
04:58 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350442/
04:58 PM Tom_dev: ignore that
04:59 PM Tom_dev: i started the wrong config
04:59 PM memleak: whew
04:59 PM memleak: that had me nervous lol
05:00 PM memleak: i was thinking hm2_7i90.ko requires MSI to work
05:00 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350443/
05:00 PM Tom_dev: nothing out of the ordinary
05:00 PM memleak: cool!
05:00 PM memleak: is latency still ok?
05:00 PM Tom_dev: no that was the live config not the sim
05:00 PM Tom_dev: i dunno i haven't checked
05:00 PM memleak: MSI might have an impact on it
05:00 PM Tom_dev: just finished installing it
05:01 PM memleak: how much RAM do you have on that?
05:02 PM Tom_dev: i've no idea
05:02 PM memleak: cat /proc/meminfo
05:02 PM Tom_dev: 16295620 kB
05:02 PM memleak: ok 16GB
05:03 PM memleak: i want to see how latency is impacted by load
05:03 PM memleak: it's a 4 core right?
05:03 PM Tom_dev: yup
05:03 PM Tom_dev: started histogram
05:04 PM memleak: `sudo apt install stress-ng && stress-ng --cpu 4 --vm 4 --vm-bytes 1G --timeout 60s` while histogram is running
05:04 PM Tom_dev: looks like a pencil atm but i'm sure that will change
05:05 PM memleak: after the minute is up i'd like to know the scores
05:06 PM Tom_dev: 16.7us running 4 glxgears & yt
05:06 PM Tom_dev: then i'll run yours
05:07 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I wonder how the RTAI latency test scores look vs the LCNC latency test
05:08 PM Tom_dev: seems to be holding at 16.7 for now
05:08 PM memleak: nice!
05:08 PM Tom_dev: better than the previous rtai
05:08 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Tom_dev: LPT stepping or Mesa?
05:09 PM Tom_dev: 7i90 mesa on lpt
05:09 PM Tom_dev: sim right now
05:09 PM Tom_dev: i've never used the raw lpt port
05:09 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I've noticed people using Mesa over Ethernet and complaining about base thread scores
05:10 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> or Mesa over PCI/e
05:10 PM Tom_dev: now added 2 yt and hasn't budged
05:10 PM memleak: stress-ng?
05:10 PM Tom_dev: no histogram
05:10 PM Tom_dev: i'll run yours in a bit
05:10 PM memleak: ok, keep histogram running, dont reset it
05:11 PM memleak: my latency numbers have improved as well with 5.4.290
05:11 PM Tom_dev: running yours now
05:12 PM memleak: have you noticed if shutdown works ok? some people have issues with my later rtai code (since 5.4.279) with shutdown freezing
05:12 PM memleak: but for some reason 5.4.258 works just fine for them
05:12 PM Tom_dev: stress-ng: info: [7742] successful run completed in 60.02s (1 min, 0.02 secs)
05:13 PM memleak: did latency budge?
05:13 PM Tom_dev: run them both?
05:13 PM Tom_dev: hang on
05:13 PM memleak: what is "both" in this case?
05:13 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> run the latency histogram and stress-ng && stress-ng --cpu 4 --vm 4 --vm-bytes 1G --timeout 60s
05:14 PM Tom_dev: i am
05:14 PM Tom_dev: 5.8 so far
05:14 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> did latency change?
05:14 PM Tom_dev: less than 4 glx gears & 3 yt
05:14 PM memleak: i was wondering if latency would go higher than 16.7
05:15 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> so lower latency until you fire up a browser and play some YT's
05:15 PM memleak: with stress-ng running at the same time
05:15 PM Tom_dev: topped at 16.7 with those and 5.8 with your test
05:15 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> just run everything at the same time
05:15 PM memleak: yes without resetting the latency
05:16 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> stress, YT's, histogram etc
05:16 PM memleak: do a speed test too to work the NIC
05:16 PM memleak: i've had my NIC make latency jump
05:17 PM Tom_dev: 2yt, 4 glxgears & stress-ng: 16.7
05:17 PM Tom_dev: 12.9 base thread
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> ok so about the same
05:17 PM Tom_dev: yeah
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> go out and enjoy the outdoors, come back do somethin else
05:18 PM Tom_dev: iirc i was getting around 24-28 with 5.4.279
05:18 PM memleak: awesome!
05:18 PM memleak: always love it when that happens
05:18 PM memleak: do you have hw 3d accel working?
05:18 PM memleak: `glxinfo`
05:19 PM memleak: be interesting to now stress the GPU with Unigine Heaven on Linux, glxgears is incredibly lightweight
05:19 PM Tom_dev: 0x409 24 dc 0 24 0 r y . 8 8 8 0 . . 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 4 1 c None
05:19 PM memleak: post full output to a paste ill have a look
05:20 PM memleak: GPUs can spike latency too
05:20 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350444/
05:20 PM memleak: https://benchmark.unigine.com/heaven
05:20 PM memleak: that cuts off the info..
05:21 PM memleak: i think it's `glxinfo -B` to bring up just what i want
05:22 PM Tom_dev: https://paste.debian.net/1350445/
05:22 PM memleak: cool, it is using the PGU
05:22 PM memleak: *GPU
05:22 PM memleak: as one more test i'd run unigine heaven
05:24 PM memleak: preset extreme if you have it
05:24 PM memleak: i never ran it on linux, just windows
05:26 PM Tom_dev: does it install a menu item?
05:26 PM Tom_dev: nevermind
05:27 PM Tom_dev: latency went to 20.4
05:28 PM Tom_dev: 23.4
05:28 PM memleak: with unigine heven?
05:29 PM memleak: *heaven\
05:29 PM Tom_dev: yeah
05:29 PM memleak: ok
05:29 PM Tom_dev: still better than 5.4.279
05:29 PM Tom_dev: how long does it run?
05:31 PM memleak: it gives you a result after the first run but i think it loops after that
05:32 PM memleak: i'm glad it's better!
05:32 PM memleak: this makes me very happy
05:32 PM Tom_dev: me too
05:33 PM Tom_dev: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/flexgui/RTAI5.4.290.png
05:33 PM memleak: nice!!!
05:34 PM Tom_dev: i stopped glxgears running unigine
05:34 PM Tom_dev: i think we have a winner
05:35 PM xxcoder: curious if you turned off vsync when running glxgears
05:35 PM memleak: glxgears puts like 1% load on the gpu anyway
05:35 PM xxcoder: pretty large when vsync is off actually
05:35 PM memleak: full screen or small window?
05:36 PM xxcoder: it is capped to whatever hz your screens run at by default
05:36 PM memleak: but does it put more load on it the bigger the window with vsync off?
05:36 PM xxcoder: yeah
05:36 PM memleak: ok
05:37 PM Tom_dev: semi full screen
05:37 PM Tom_dev: probably 2/3
05:37 PM xxcoder: vblank_mode=0 glxgears
05:37 PM memleak: what if you rapidly move the window around as fast as you can?
05:37 PM Tom_dev: i closed it already
05:37 PM memleak: linux needs furmark
05:38 PM Tom_dev: suppertime
05:38 PM xxcoder: 18k fps on my pc when vblank mode 0
05:38 PM memleak: Tom_dev, thanks for testing!
05:54 PM Tom_L: glad to help
05:56 PM xxcoder: its funny, really. I remember earliest days of using glxgears. it was around 500-1000 fps and it was pretty good. nowdays 18k and its not even close to top of line
05:56 PM xxcoder: my first computer probably wouldnt be even be fast enough to keep up with default hz.
05:58 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> off topic question, is RTAI a thing on arm64 cpu's?
06:01 PM Tom_L: no
06:01 PM Tom_L: i've never heard of it anyway
06:01 PM Tom_L: amd64
06:04 PM roycroft: nice, i had a productive day at work
06:04 PM roycroft: i set up voicemail transcription on our phone switches
06:05 PM roycroft: when someone leaves a voicemail, we ship the recording off to openai, which transcribes it to text
06:05 PM roycroft: we then email the user with a recording of the voicemail along with the text transcription
06:10 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> neat
06:14 PM xxcoder: that would be handy for me lol
06:14 PM xxcoder: so I know what scam callers is trying to sell me
06:15 PM roycroft: exactly - i have some persistent spammers who call me
06:15 PM roycroft: and it would be nice to send certain calls straight to voicemail
06:15 PM roycroft: it's faster to read the first few words of a transcription and delete than to load the voice message, listen to the first few words, then delete
06:16 PM roycroft: and some, like you, don't really have that second option at all
06:16 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> my pixel does a really good job of dictating the call
06:16 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> (it is old - 4 5g? someting like that)
06:16 PM roycroft: openai is doing a really good job
06:17 PM roycroft: i even kind of mumbled on one test, and played the radio reasonably loud in the background on another
06:17 PM roycroft: the ai engine transcribed both of those test calls perfectly
06:17 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> microsoft voicemail transcription for hosted exchange, has been amazing for about a decade
06:18 PM roycroft: my boss got ahold of them
06:18 PM xxcoder: i'd be shocked if openai understood me
06:18 PM roycroft: i got a call from a sales critter wanting us to try out azure
06:18 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> integrating it with a "digital" phone system.... was not amazing
06:18 PM roycroft: "how much does it cost per minute"
06:18 PM roycroft: "it's FREE for 30 days! you need to sign up for it!"
06:18 PM roycroft: "how much does it cost per minute after 30 days?"
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> depends, if it's "managed services" there is no "per minute" billing
06:19 PM roycroft: "it's FREE for 30 days! you need to sign up for it!"
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> you don't want to "lift and shift"
06:19 PM roycroft: that's how the conversation went
06:19 PM roycroft: what i got from other sources is that it's about $0.003/minute on pay/go
06:19 PM roycroft: openai is $0.006/minute on pay/go
06:20 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I don't get it either... but I went skiing with the kids - then stayed at a hotel with a pool.. I am wiped..
06:20 PM roycroft: so twice as much, but i do not have to endure sales critters, and it just works
06:20 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> skiing, is much more work than it looks like, even downhill
06:20 PM roycroft: it's controlled falling
06:20 PM roycroft: but it takes a lot of control
06:20 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> all those stabilization muscles, that we don't use
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> my son doesn't like when it is below freezing.. - the snow is too crunchy...
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> next day, omg my "everthing" hurts
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> yes. I have a catch between the shoulder blades..
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> i learned to downhill, on Monarch in CO. was an amazing time, and spoiled me forever
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I learned on ice....
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> (western wisconsin..)
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> oof, no bueno
06:22 PM roycroft: one of the reasons i moved to the northwet 45 years ago was to go skiing
06:22 PM roycroft: i should probably do that some day
06:22 PM roycroft: i've done some x-country skiing, but i always wanted to do downhill
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> you learn pretty quick on how to use the edges..
06:22 PM roycroft: obviously i did not want to do that very badly
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> x-country is too much work...
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> if you can ice skate, you can downhill ski
06:23 PM roycroft: well at the time i was a bicycle racer
06:23 PM roycroft: x-country was to keep in shape for cycling during the winter
06:23 PM roycroft: except it used arm muscles more than cycling
06:46 PM Tom_L: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/delta-plane-crash-toronto-flips-02-17-25/index.html
06:47 PM xxcoder: yeah I wouldnt take any airplane rides anytime soon
06:47 PM xxcoder: 5 in such short span. insane
06:54 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> People say skiing is like ice skating, and I'm almost as fast as Connor McDavid, one of the NHL's fastest
06:55 PM Tom_L: on your head or feet?
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I bought moderately high end skates but replaced the blade from their top of the line skate and it's loud asf when I take sharp corners and stop
06:56 PM Tom_L: my kids were into inline and had some nice fitted skates
06:56 PM Tom_L: bont?
06:56 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I'm a Bauer guy.
06:58 PM Tom_L: they might have had a pair of those too
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Bauer and warrior, but I do have a vintage style Sher-Wood stick
06:58 PM Tom_L: i had an old pair of bauer rollerblades
06:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> not sure how a plane becomes upside down like that without any casualities
06:59 PM Tom_L: the bont were carbon fiber fitted skates
06:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> but i was pretty sure most of the flights to pearson were cancled from the snowstorm
07:00 PM Tom_L: big_k i was kinda wondering that myself
07:00 PM xxcoder: frame is quite strong. pretty sure it rolled over after majority of slow down
07:00 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Yeah the rollerblades everyone is talking about now are Marsblades because the NHLers use them for training
07:00 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> They most closely resemble skating on ice
07:03 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> it must of, there was so much snow this weekend
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i forgot that i came get cnc question
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> when you guys do milling with cuttercomp
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> do you program it with full radius/diameter or do you program it as ware
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ware offset?
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> ccatlett1984@ there were efforts to update ARM but no ARM64 support in RTAI.
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Even 32-bit x86 processors were dropped in kernel 4.14.71
07:16 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Soo.. September 19 2018
07:17 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> big_kevin420@ were abouts are you>
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> 40minutes southeast of tornoto
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> west
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> southwest
07:25 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I would love to live near Toronto
07:31 PM sinned691588 is now known as sinned69158
07:32 PM roycroft: why? so you can sit in traffic all day, every day? :)
07:33 PM roycroft: when big_kevin says "40 minutes southeast of toronto" he means "5km southeast of toronto"
07:35 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> A nice big ole city not riddled with stupid Americans
07:35 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> lol right depends which way your driving
07:36 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Plus Tim Hortons on every block 😛
07:37 PM roycroft: better a tim horton's on every block than a starbuck's on every corner, i say
07:37 PM roycroft: i really like vancouver and victoria
07:38 PM roycroft: i've partied pretty hard in winnipeg
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I'd love to visit Vancouver but it's extremely expensive
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> I also live ~40 min from Toronto. Haven't driven into TO in the last decade. Traffic is jus too bad, take the train instead.
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> always train
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> so you can drink on the way to toronto
07:38 PM roycroft: but since gta pretty much stretches from detroit/windsor to buffalo/niagra falls now, and the traffic is like la traffic throughout the gta, i'm not a fan of that part of the world
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Yeah I've heard the traffic is terrible
07:39 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Grand Theft Auto?
07:39 PM roycroft: greater toronto area
07:39 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Lmfao
07:39 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> not as bad as LA, la was overwhelming
07:39 PM roycroft: well folks aren't as polite in la
07:40 PM roycroft: especially when the are in their cars
07:40 PM roycroft: which is any time they are outside
07:40 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> LOL. Toronto drivers are anything but polite.
07:40 PM roycroft: i have a friend who lives in santa monica
07:40 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> You guys ever see road rage videos from Russia?
07:40 PM roycroft: she had a moderately long driveway, but not terribly long
07:40 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Groups of guys getting out holding up AKs
07:40 PM roycroft: her mailbox was at the street
07:41 PM roycroft: she would back her car down the driveway and drive it back up to the house to get her mail
07:41 PM roycroft: and thought nothing was odd about that
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ok point taken , but no one likes driving in/to toronto
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> UK drivers are notoriously known for road rage too I think
07:42 PM roycroft: rather than walk to the corner, cross the street, and walk over to the store directly across from her driveway she would drive out, spend 20 minutes finding a parking spot near the store, and then go to the store
07:42 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> When you wish Portal was real life...
07:43 PM roycroft: there is this la mentality that the only way to go anywhere is to drive
07:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> so complicated portals
07:43 PM roycroft: except if you're at the beach, in which case a skateboard is ok
07:43 PM roycroft: but walking more than about 10m is always right out
07:45 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> True Crime Streets of LA traumatized me from wanting to go.
07:45 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> FREAKIN CLASSIC THOUGH
07:46 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> gta san andreas made me want to go
07:46 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> but it was just urban sprawl - summer edition
07:47 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i hear theres no misquitos
07:48 PM roycroft: there are plenty of mosquitos in eugene, but none here - i'm just high enough that they don't like it here
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Eugene?
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> or?
07:49 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Where's that?
07:49 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> yeah looks like eugene oragon
07:49 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Xenomai on ARM is the way to go
07:49 PM roycroft: oregon
07:49 PM roycroft: where i used to live
07:49 PM roycroft: now i'm an hour out of town, to the east, in the cascade foothills
07:49 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Yes, if you care about ARM use Xenomai.
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Hands down, if PREEMPT_RT doesn't cut it.
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> There was a some LNCN drama a couple years ago and even RTAI support was dropped
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> LCNC even
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Oh man, I remember getting Xenomai on a cubieboard 2 years ago.
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> for xeno, it that not compiled for rpi or did linuxcnc not adopt xeno
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Cubieboard 2, years ago*
07:51 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> LinuxCNC builds against Xenomai just no .Deb support outside of Andy's and my fork.
07:51 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> mk uses it on thing
07:51 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Andypugh didn't just restore RTAI but Xenomai Deb support too.
07:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I thought it was just the user space version of xenomai?
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> look at me sounding like I know what I am talking about..
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> With the cubieboard2 it was kernel space I believe and I had LinuxCNC working in it.
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Latency was around 40-50 microseconds
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Wow that was 2013.
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> which cubie had the 6-8 core cpu?
07:55 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Cubieboard4 had the Allwinner A80 SoC (quad Cortex-A15, quad Cortex-A7 big.LITTLE)
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> maybe that was it
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> i think that is in a box steps from me
07:57 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I'd like to do a Gentoo image for the raspberry pi 5 as quite some people use it.
07:57 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> but everyone was gaga about machinekit and that BBB TI board
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> another waste of time
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Beaglebone Black is horse manure
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I don't think it even has video and it's overpriced hot garbage.
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://linuxgizmos.com/vaaman-is-a-180-reconfigurable-board-with-an-efinix-trion-t120-fpga-and-rockchip-rk3399/
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Solid ARM images just simply don't exist.
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Raspbian is a joke.
08:02 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> that board ^^ has a cpu and gpu to run LCNC plus a FGPA, but I'd say and RIO but the RIO dev come across kinda flakey to me
08:03 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://github.com/multigcs/riocore
08:03 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> so maybe a RIO fork
08:04 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> They use docker.. oof.
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I don't know why people don't use LXC if they want containers. Eric Biederman wrote LXC, one of the top devs in the world IMO.
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I mean he literally invented kexec.
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> i think the new mesa card variants use trion
08:05 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> and bunch of other stuff 🙂
08:06 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Yeah ROMCC too
08:06 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> And managed to shrink the absolutely enormous networking stack for the Linux kernel for Coreboot.
08:07 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> The SCSI and networking code for Linux is way too big. Needs a modem re-write IMO.
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> That's what happens i guess when you just keep patching code for 30 years.
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> are the Chinese still scary? If not then maybe RISC-V might be the best fit for low cost LCNC controllers
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Gentoo has great support for RISC-V
08:12 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> lots of chinese forks of LCNC
08:13 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Do any of them have a modern replacement for NML? xD
08:15 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> haven't asked, they make other mods but don't share anything back
08:16 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Assholes.
08:18 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> At least LinuxCNC doesn't use Dbus for messaging
08:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> the Chinese way, try to prevent the stuff you took from being shared
08:20 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> What a mess it is, another project that's just been alive for too long and implanted itself in everything
08:20 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> On the bright side people have been replacing pulseaudio with pipewire.
08:20 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Praise the Lord.
08:22 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Now we just need people to switch from SystemD to OpenRC
08:22 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Tormachs fork of LCNC uses MQTT
08:22 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://forums.tormach.com/t/pathpilot-networking-mqtt-node-red-nas-new-tormach-camera/1341/7
08:25 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Never heard of it.
08:25 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Of either actually.
08:26 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Oh does anyone know the difference between Camview and NativeCAM?
08:27 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Someone asked for a Gentoo package for nativecam
08:27 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> But the example code only goes as high as 2.8
08:27 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Not sure if it'd be compatible with 2.9
08:28 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I'd ignore them
08:29 PM Tom_L: what's typical wage for a cnc programmer these days?
08:30 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> not much $40K and up
08:30 PM Tom_L: i suppose i'm asking kinda late in the day
08:30 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> maybe $100K for a 5-axis programmer
08:31 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> $60-70K is the avg
08:31 PM bjorkintosh: yeah. that's about right, I'd say.
08:31 PM Tom_L: i haven't done any commercially for quite a few years and was just curious
08:31 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> for 3 axis
08:32 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> rarely over $80k
08:33 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> they only want to pay $120k-150K for a CNC shop manager
08:34 PM bjorkintosh: someone to blame for broken things.
08:34 PM bjorkintosh: and harass for speed.
08:35 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM
08:35 PM xxcoder: yeah cnc workers pay have been going down for while now
08:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> nutlinux@ camview is a widget to get video in a user interface with LCNC
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Ah nativecam looks like it has nothing to do with a camera
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I thought they were similar.
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <lolthekidison@> Does anyone know why my computer will randomly not be able to find a boot drive? Linuxcnc will be working fine for many boots, on SSD and SD card. Then randomly it will stop working. Had this happen 3 times now. I must be messing something up on install or?
08:38 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> nope its for computer-aided manufacturing
08:38 PM xxcoder: id suggest check smartctl status of your drive
08:40 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> lolthekidison@ sounds like a BIOS or hardware issue, check cable as well
08:40 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Looks like it's a mess for 2.9: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/nativecam/53492-nativecam-on-linuxcnc-2-9-3
08:40 PM Tom_L: could be as simple as a bad ssd cable
08:40 PM Tom_L: i have one the bios acts up if i put too many devices on the buss
08:41 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Looks like you need to modify a fork of it: https://github.com/BogdanTheGeek/NativeCAM
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> why nativecam? a CAM that hardly anyone will use
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <lolthekidison@> I can maybe reset the bios or check it again at least. I just have one ssd, had same issue when running it from USB drive.
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Jca- or something like that asked about it
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> now if someone spent some time of open 5-axis CAM that might be something
08:43 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> but but but, export controls!
08:43 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> our enemies can't have 5-axis CAM
08:44 PM bjorkintosh: are most controls not fanuc or siemens?
08:44 PM bjorkintosh: those are for'n.
08:44 PM bjorkintosh: oh CAM. n/m.
08:44 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> interesting times, enemies from within vs?
08:46 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Well I know with my mistake of buying an MSI board, I have to reinstall GRUB to the EFI table because it says "please insert boot media and press enter" whenever I use windows and switch drives around, and USB isn't always probed.
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I can tell because my USB drives have a light on them
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I have to reinsert the USB drive and reboot several times for it to realize I have a drive in there.
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Flaky BIOS on my end for sure.
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Never buying MSI again.
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> It was there super duper gaming motherboard too.
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> X470 Gaming Plus
08:50 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Total POS
08:50 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> hasta banana
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> And then on top of that, they switched from a pretty, feature-full BIOS to a simple black and white interface and made it unable to POST with my sound card after the 3rd or so reboot.
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> It'd work and then after a few reboots it won't come up, so I had to use a fancy tool to downgrade my BIOS.
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Luckily they didn't do that trick Sony does for their PlayStations where they make it impossible to go back
10:22 PM xxcoder: https://imgur.com/gallery/escaping-plane-that-crashed-toronto-uYe31Pg
10:22 PM xxcoder: seems its not huge type, but smaller type. the body would be even harder
10:29 PM Tom_L: commuter size
10:37 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> tom yeah they said it was a bombardie so that means small
10:45 PM roycroft: what's with all the plane crashes recently anyway?
10:46 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft: standard answer from Donald Musk is DEI.
10:47 PM bjorkintosh: real answer? MBAs cutting corners in maintenance, would be my bet.
10:47 PM bjorkintosh: "planes practically fly themselves and fix themselves. we don't need all these maintenance folks. what do they do anyway?"
10:49 PM bjorkintosh: saw that first hand at a shop I worked at.
10:49 PM bjorkintosh: things were fine.
10:49 PM bjorkintosh: Until they weren't.
10:50 PM bjorkintosh: reducing the maintenance folks from 6 to 2 during the day, and 1 at night... when the 1 at night was seriously injured.
10:50 PM bjorkintosh: but oh well.
10:50 PM roycroft: i think it's because of sun spots
11:01 PM bjorkintosh: just as likely.
11:32 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkjW0JauX8
11:32 PM xxcoder: solvespace. been a while