#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 10 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:11 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
12:42 AM Scopeuk0 is now known as Scopeuk
01:39 AM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen@> I was wrong, the students rioted and broke a batch of signs. I'm surprised the township wasn't ready for that
01:40 AM xxcoder: because their tribe team lost or won? or both?
01:40 AM Unterhausen: because they won
01:41 AM Unterhausen: they have rioted in the past when their sportsball team lost, so it's not unprecedented
01:51 AM lcnc-relay: <grandixximo@> ntulinux2467@: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
01:52 AM Deejay: moin
02:37 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> moin moin
03:03 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
03:12 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> hello
03:31 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> new riocore release: https://github.com/multigcs/riocore/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md
04:05 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> sorry but I struggle to understand what is the purpose of RIO?
04:40 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> do you know mesa ?
04:42 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> yup
04:47 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> it's similar
04:47 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel@> but better 😇
06:07 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> so it's a hardware interface?
06:13 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Fpga stuff only without a soft or hard cou core
06:13 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Buncha state machines and timers
06:14 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Heh CPU core
06:15 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> (Stinking spell check)
06:16 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> RIO runs on a wider variety of fpga's
06:17 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> ok thank you
06:17 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> But you still have to make your own IO boards with level translators, buffers, headers, etc. etc.
06:18 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i used a MESA on my first retrofit, and for my second i would like to use a mix of ethercat and another board to be defined to ontrol motors
06:18 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> my servo are not ethercat
06:18 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> all others i/o will go through ehtercat for ease of use and robustness
06:19 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> For some reason it's just not in the RIO "what is RIO?" of the wiki
06:19 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i purchased delta servo with linear encoder feedback in order to not deal with PID In linuxcnc
06:22 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> I don't really mind much unless it's Fanuc
06:22 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Or Siemens
06:22 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Or Mitsubishi
06:22 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> what do you mean?
06:23 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Dealing with configurationd
06:23 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Configurations
06:24 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> ok
06:25 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Or some other proprietary fuck you we only tell you what we want CNC controls and don't tell any others about how to config anything.......
06:25 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.@> Since WE charge for that info
06:47 AM mrec: did anyone of you guys play around with optical transceivers?
07:00 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i used 2 or 3 in my house but that's all
07:58 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> vibram: what do you have against the pid within linuxcnc?
07:59 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> Those are fighting words... 😉
07:59 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i always struggle with PID in linuxcnc
07:59 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> so i will try to put it in the driver with the auto tune function
07:59 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i which an auto tune function would exist in lcnc
08:00 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> It does now- but I don't know how well it works
08:01 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I have never had really good luck with autotune..
08:01 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> really?
08:01 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I gave up and now just tune manually
08:02 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/man/man9/pid.9.html
08:02 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> towards the bottom
08:02 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> It is really hard to make a generic autotune as there is so much variability in the controlled system. A drive with a known motor is much easier to autotune since the starting points are well known as are the limits.
08:03 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> sure.
08:03 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> but I have even seen youtubers with fancy autotuning drives have to get the mfg involved because it just doesn't tune well
08:04 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> Halscope is your friend. You can just setup a move that goes back and forth a short distance - trigger on it - then play with the parameters..
08:04 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Yes. Autotune is not magic and will not work for all edge cases. I find it really easy to tune using Halscope.
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> for me halscope is a pita honestly
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> but i'm not a technical guy
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i try to put a PID on my spindle but very complicated to figure it out
08:07 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i will work on it once again
08:10 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> if I give you my HAL file, can you tell me which signal i should monitor in Halscope?
08:10 AM lcnc-relay: I have my idea but maybe im wrong
08:21 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> Have you followed: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc-old/tuning/servo.html
08:22 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> J-T created that and I find it works well for me.
08:27 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram@> i will try thank you
11:49 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:00 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> vibram@: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Servo_Tuning_Detail_How_To
02:01 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers
02:01 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Tuning_LinuxCNC/HAL_PID_Loops
02:03 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Suppliers#PID_and_Tuning_Info
02:03 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/pid_overshoot.htm
02:20 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> Information overload!? Shutting down...
03:41 PM Rab: <Tom_L> just noticed we switched channels :)
03:42 PM Rab: Tom_L, is there another machining channel on Freenode??
03:42 PM Rab: Er, Libera
03:44 PM xxcoder: theres 2 gui-specific channels yeah
03:45 PM xxcoder: flex and qt
03:45 PM Rab: ahh
03:49 PM Tom_L: mostly a private channel
03:50 PM Tom_L: rifraf and i go back a ways
03:51 PM JT-Shop: 100% chance for rain and my mesa boards will be delivered tomorrow
04:02 PM Unterhausen: weather for us on wednesday is snow, then rain, then snow, then rain. A lovely combination
04:03 PM Unterhausen: temperature will be below freezing the whole time, so that should be lovely
04:07 PM xxcoder: layered cake snow covering
04:08 PM xxcoder: happened at vancouver, wa over 20 years ago, by cycling snow and ice rain lol
04:08 PM xxcoder: there was crunchy top, then snow, then another crunchy layer, then final one again then floor
04:30 PM JT-Shop: pitman arm 3 JT 0
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> oof
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> gotten out the torch yet?
04:31 PM xxcoder: cant be tight when its liquid!
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I did apply some heat with a brazing tip but didn't get crazy with it yet
04:35 PM JT-Shop: also didn't try an impact yet
04:38 PM roycroft: jt-shop if you're still about, i have an electrical question for you
04:38 PM roycroft: do you know how close a receptacle can be to a sink?
04:38 PM roycroft: by code
04:39 PM JT-Shop: no, sorry don't know code and code varies by location
04:39 PM roycroft: and how close it can be to a laundry hookup with drain?
04:39 PM roycroft: ok
04:39 PM roycroft: yeah, i know that there are local variants, and that code changes every year
04:40 PM roycroft: i just thought you might know off the top of your head - i can do the research
04:40 PM Tom_L: google says: According to most electrical codes, an outlet should be at least 3 feet away from the edge of a sink in a bathroom
04:40 PM roycroft: well that works for no house i've ever lived in :)
04:40 PM JT-Shop: I did industrial work and only did a few houses in areas where there is no inspection
04:41 PM roycroft: where i need to install this i'll use a gfci breaker or receptacle, of course
04:41 PM JT-Shop: yup I have two outlets next to the bathroom sink
04:41 PM JT-Shop: I used a breaker for multiple outlets
04:41 PM Tom_L: According to the National Electrical Code (NEC), outlets in kitchens with sinks should be within 2 feet of the sink
04:42 PM JT-Shop: within?
04:42 PM Tom_L: GFCI
04:42 PM Tom_L: that's what google says
04:42 PM JT-Shop: ok that makes sense if within 2' gfci
04:42 PM roycroft: i have an old panel - it's cheaper and easier to install the first receptacle in a circuit with gfci than to install a gfci breaker
04:42 PM JT-Shop: yup it just depends on your actual conditions what makes more sense
04:42 PM roycroft: a gfci receptacle protects everything downstream
04:43 PM * JT-Shop takes a break from steering gearbox disassembly
04:44 PM * roycroft is not planning on having this moved receptacle inspected (it's currently right next to the existing laundry hookup), but as always, wants to install to code
04:44 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, how's the wiring job goin?
04:45 PM roycroft: i'll actually be locating it farther away from the new laundry hookup than it currently is from the old one
04:45 PM JT-Shop: slow, I'm trying to get power to the control panel but the operator started grinding broken and created a huge cloud of dust
04:46 PM JT-Shop: I've had issues with power dist blocks and finally got a good one today
05:04 PM rifraf: this link work better rue? https://i.imgur.com/lB8jhIr.jpeg
05:04 PM rifraf: woops
05:05 PM xxcoder: is it z hopping?
06:21 PM roycroft: well, the metal rack is set up and all my metal is neatly stored, and that job actually took less time than i anticipated
06:21 PM roycroft: perhaps i am starting to learn to pace myself and add an "old age" multiplier to my estimates
06:57 PM Unterhausen: I swear NSA has dependency on old JDK so they can put a backdoor in their code
06:58 PM Unterhausen: they check for jdk 17 and won't run with newer
06:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> I was working on a windows 7 machine that I forgot existed.. hard drive didn't spin up after a power outage..
06:59 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen: what are you trying to run, Ghidra?
06:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> a little percussive maintenence and then clonezilla..
06:59 PM bjorkintosh: you dropped it!
07:01 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> na - edge of the table..
07:44 PM Unterhausen: bjorkintosh yes ghidra. do they have any other good softwares?
07:45 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen: They cannot say :-D
07:46 PM bjorkintosh: well. SE Linux.
08:35 PM roycroft: well i guess that metal store i moved from the old shop just went way up in value, since we have those stupid tariffs on aluminium and steel again
08:40 PM xxcoder: yep. too bad for cnc shops
08:40 PM xxcoder: one I worked at was hit very hard last time tariffs happened
08:40 PM roycroft: it's really stupid - most of the steel we import is steel that is not made in this country
08:41 PM roycroft: in large part it's tool steel made in germany
08:41 PM roycroft: and regarding aluminium - it's actually going to hurt the big aluminium producers in this country because they import a lot of scrap to reprocess
08:41 PM roycroft: mostly from canada
08:42 PM xxcoder: shop I worked at before, was heavily alum then steel
08:42 PM xxcoder: it wont be funtimes for them now for sure
08:42 PM roycroft: i, again, am all for bringing manufacturing back home, but it has to be done thoughtfully
08:43 PM roycroft: it's not like when there's a 25% tariff imposed on steel one day investors will decide to open new smelters the next day and have them online in a week
08:44 PM roycroft: even if all government regulations and reviews were abolished, it takes years to build a plant like that
08:44 PM roycroft: not days or weeks
08:44 PM xxcoder: yep. it needs huge money backings to start taking off, then build begins
08:44 PM roycroft: but oh well, i have a nice little stash outside my shop now :)
08:45 PM xxcoder: chip factories will still take a year or two, assuming they dont cut that off
08:45 PM roycroft: it's going to take months just to design the plant
08:46 PM roycroft: plus there is financing, land acquistion, and a lot of contruction workers are being deported now, so it's going to be hard to find people to build it
08:47 PM roycroft: and the thing is, the next president (if we have a next president) can get rid of a tariff with the stroke of a pen, just like this one imposed it with the stroke of a pen
08:47 PM roycroft: if i were an investor i would not put any money into a project with a long (at least a decade) roi when the whole financial equation could change in a much shorter time frame
08:48 PM xxcoder: yeah chaos from leaderships makes huge projects hard to do
08:48 PM xxcoder: floor could suddenly drop off
08:48 PM xxcoder: i'm not pro business. far from that, but goverment should be in least mostly stable for country to even work
08:49 PM roycroft: i'm pro business but pro worker as well
08:50 PM roycroft: right now, though, i'm mostly pro dinner
08:50 PM roycroft: so i should head off to take care of that
08:50 PM xxcoder: lol had mine, and I had blended and shaken strawberries for tomorrow dessert
08:50 PM xxcoder: I only rarely want dessert but felt like it
08:51 PM bjorkintosh: it is only expensive when spelled alumInium!
08:51 PM roycroft: it's going to get wicked cold tonight - -9c, almost a record
08:51 PM roycroft: i spell it that way because it makes more sense - it's more consistent
08:53 PM roycroft: lithIum, potassIum, iridIum, plutonIum, uranIum, gallIum, polonIum - almost all elements that end in um end in ium
08:55 PM roycroft: and all the other group iiia ones do - gallium, indium, thallium, unutrium
08:56 PM roycroft: boron notwithstanding, but it does not end in um
08:56 PM xxcoder: its a boring standout
08:57 PM roycroft: but not a borium standout
08:57 PM pcw-home: Carbon also
08:58 PM pcw-home: Someone on the forum argued that Silicon should be Silicium
09:00 PM bjorkintosh: do they want to spell Argon as Argument then? :-D
09:00 PM bjorkintosh: Argium
09:00 PM pcw-home: I guess it depends on where is belongs in the metal/nonmetal range
09:29 PM roycroft: group viii elements mostly end in on
09:31 PM roycroft: neon, argon, krypton, xenon, radon
09:31 PM roycroft: helium being the notable exception
09:31 PM roycroft: but it is helium, not helum
09:33 PM xxcoder: maybe helum is too light to stay down, so they added a weighty i
09:36 PM roycroft: the weight is on the syllable before the ium ending
09:37 PM roycroft: there are two other elements that end in um, not ium - platinum and lanthanum
09:37 PM roycroft: i do not know why there are not spelling variants for those two elements
09:38 PM roycroft: i would advocate for platinium and lanthanium
09:38 PM xxcoder: is it time for golium?
09:39 PM roycroft: but those spellings are completely unheard of, and since i discuss neither element on a regular basis, i just pretend they don't exist :)
09:39 PM memleak: herro
09:41 PM roycroft: golium as in "my precious"?
09:41 PM xxcoder: that would make sense. its new name for gold lol
09:41 PM lcnc-relay: <thorhian@> Platinum is a wonderful metal, both for jewelry and good chemical properties.
09:42 PM memleak: what are your guys's thoughts on tungsten?
09:42 PM lcnc-relay: <thorhian@> Good stuff.
09:42 PM roycroft: so gold hates hobbitses
09:43 PM xxcoder: apparently
09:44 PM bjorkintosh: well platinum comes from 'platina' for little silver.
09:44 PM bjorkintosh: chemical names haven't been super consistent over time.
09:45 PM xxcoder: yeah due to age range of elements. gold and copper probably is one of oldest element names
09:45 PM lcnc-relay: <thorhian@> Personally I would like a few kilograms of Iridium.
09:54 PM bjorkintosh: what do you need it for?
09:57 PM xxcoder: all the talk of elements reminded me of this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1017516634568654939/1336239115154493531/IMG_0636.jpeg?ex=67aba6e7&is=67aa5567&hm=9f2f3fc35fb3ee964b064b7bf91c5a50c84d783fc67898c0c4f6dc879ded2130&=&format=webp&width=413&height=657
09:57 PM roycroft: bjorkintosh: i'm almost ready to sort through my switches
09:57 PM bjorkintosh: yay!
09:57 PM roycroft: yesterday's main project ended up taking a lot longer than it was supposed to
09:57 PM xxcoder: now thats switching topic ;)
09:57 PM bjorkintosh: oh no rush man.
09:58 PM bjorkintosh: whenever you get the listed is good enough for me.
09:58 PM bjorkintosh: *them
09:58 PM roycroft: be forewarned that shipping is probably going to be expensive
09:59 PM roycroft: but i'll get that figured out ahead of time
09:59 PM roycroft: and i can slow boat them to save shipping cost
10:06 PM bjorkintosh: I figured.
10:18 PM memleak: in the world of spark plugs, ruthenium is the new iridium
10:19 PM memleak: last i checked NGK is the only company makin em
10:20 PM memleak: heh JT-Shop you should put them in your C8 :p
10:25 PM * roycroft has glow plugs
10:26 PM roycroft: the veloster has spark plugs
10:57 PM memleak: i'd like to take a veloster on a snow rally stage
10:57 PM roycroft: i drove it in light snow and it was ok
10:58 PM roycroft: if we get heavy snow i'll drive my f350 4x4
10:58 PM roycroft: i still don't know if i can fit chains on the veloster - there is very little clearance in the wheel wells
11:00 PM memleak: hyundai is always doing really well in the WRC :)
11:01 PM memleak: huge fan of Thierry Neuville
11:02 PM roycroft: wrc?
11:02 PM memleak: i'm sad kris meeke hasn't raced in it for awhile, he was too reckless with the car on too many occasions but man he was quick
11:03 PM memleak: once ended up in the parking lot in mexico and was doing donuts around the cars until he found his way back on the track xD
11:03 PM memleak: world rally championship
11:03 PM roycroft: thanks
11:03 PM memleak: i'm a world record holder on several stages in the wrc simulators
11:04 PM roycroft: cool
11:04 PM memleak: wish someone gave me a chance to do it irl lol
11:10 PM memleak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKjCIxvc6Y -- my favorite moment