#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 25 2025
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:50 AM Deejay: moin
04:11 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:38 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:52 AM lcnc-relay: <oddname_skane@> well it was a failure, but a good failure 😄
07:52 AM lcnc-relay: https://i.imgur.com/SWIJXtf.jpg
08:04 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> wonder what is more dangerous: 1. an under powered lathe. 2. an underpowered knee mill 3. an over powered lathe 4. an over powered knee mill?
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on@> 3 and 4 don't exist.
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> i bought a new sewing servo
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> when i bought my little 7x18 lathe I took the spindle out and noticed it was all cracked up and ready to fail.
08:06 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> when i took my mx210 lathe apart I noticed how paper thin the spindle is on that
08:06 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> I fear a snap, and the chuck accelerating toward me at high speed.
08:07 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> right now I also have my 750w consew driving my 8x36 knee mill and it has worked great for every tool i've used in it
08:07 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> i'm wondering if I put the new "super" sewing servo in the lathe or mill.
08:08 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> the mx210 still has the original brushed DC motor in it and doesn't have much low end torque.
08:08 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> this new thing claims 16NM torque
08:09 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> and the shaft is longer, i have a bit of a hack to get the giant cast mill step pulley mounted on the other one
08:10 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> also, the new one has a easy reverse on it, vs long presses on the consew...
08:12 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> but also, I don't think i need 16NM on the mill, the little 750w has been fine
08:13 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> decisions, decisions, maybe I should wait for the new pulleys to show up before I decide
08:15 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> on another random topic I have been thinking quite a lot about threadexpress... seems very simple to make an electronic version that would make it easier to make. just need some plate, encoder , 2 rails, and a ballscrew, a lathe spindle, some timing belt.
08:16 AM lcnc-relay: <schoch_@> you could even just use one of those straight shaft er32 adapters for the spindle
08:39 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> This is it!!
08:41 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Capthindsight mentioned an ARM64 board with native M.2 but only had 4GB or so of RAM.
08:41 AM lcnc-relay: This is a rockchip rk3588 that supports up to 16GB of DDR5, has wifi and wired ethernet
08:41 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/Orange-Pi-5-Ultra.html
08:46 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Probably the perfect ARM64 board right now, 4 USB ports too, HDMI 2.1 output, and a GPU fully supported in the latest mainline sources
08:48 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I'm so glad after all these years of closed source Mali graphics that the open source community got fed up (especially Alyssa) and hacked it all to death to bring us custom kernels and hardware accelerated 3D
08:49 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Before you couldn't even run preempt_rt on pretty much every arm board without sacrificing GPU accel because they'd only ship binaries
08:51 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Nothing would make me happier than to build a Gentoo image for the OrangePi 5 Ultra/Max
08:53 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> andypugh@ can you ask BsAtHome if he can look at the Debian configure files you and I both have for RTAI? If he's willing to help, it'd be more beneficial to get the Debian/ folder sorted out in Debian for RTAI than compiling warnings.
08:54 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> *sorted out in LinuxCNC
08:54 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I greatly appreciate the work but we don't have a stable way of building RTAI LinuxCNC Debian packages
08:56 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> Locally I just merged 2.9 into andypugh/2.9-rtai and I am building a deb package of 2.9.4 right now.
08:56 AM lcnc-relay: I expect to be rather busy the rest of the weekend...
08:57 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Ok, do you think the Debian folder is a big mess or do you think merging it the way we've been doing it is clean enough for upstream?
08:57 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I just think it'd be best to get another pair of eyes on this.
09:03 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> I think it needs someone who properly understands debian/configure files to look at it, roll-back Jeplers changes, and merge in all the updates since.
09:04 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> So in your opinion you think it'll be out of mainline for awhile?
09:06 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> The problem I have is that I don't properly understand Debian packaging and the config file. So I can't tell what it should look like.
09:07 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Some changes can't be modified. For example dh_auto_build builds the kernel modules in a weird way where it adds "/src" to the build system, causing a "no directory found: /src/src"
09:08 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> So some of the new code has to be rolled back to complement RTAI
09:09 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> But if you remove some instance of "/src" then the Debian build works, but then classic make/configure manual builds are broken
09:09 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I forget the exact details but there's something fishy about dh_auto_build
09:10 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Technically it's the right way but not when it adds extra directories. perhaps there is a way to override it but I don't know.
09:11 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> This is what needs to be rolled back, except some of it is good (switch to Python3 for example)
09:11 AM lcnc-relay: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/6f285604ac1a1b58b2d65d5904ffec3998a833ef#diff-32398392e73de1329baace4002e696ea9e52c135952dc4da435787a14213c6b8
09:13 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> I suppose what I need to do is to take my current andypugh/2.9-rtai branch and check that it properly builds uspace. And RTAI-LXRT, and Xenomi-LXRT
09:14 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> Unforunately no-docs doesn't work in my branch...
09:14 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> This change is also problematic: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/3ee51e306bbe93d424dcdcc8429feaf0b9d6ef02
09:16 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> Yeah, and I have no idea what that even means...
09:16 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I was able to build without docs with this commit but it's not graceful at all.
09:16 AM lcnc-relay: https://github.com/NTULINUX/linuxcnc/commit/a197dad865a02e47a2aee4038eb1fb8089423d70
09:16 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> It's a good reference though if you ever decide to work on it
09:17 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> One of the problems is that theres a hard-coded error that doesn't let you build without docs
09:17 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> See: docs/src/Submakefile
09:18 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> LinuxCNC shouldn't error out if you don't have asciidoc installed and you don't want to build docs
09:19 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Worse yet, if you disable docs via configure, it's also hard-coded to error
09:20 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I did that so someone else could finish it up and make it optional. And also for my own sake of not having to wait an hour for docs to build on my 16 thread Ryzen CPU
09:34 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> There is some magic here that I lost when I made my bodge-branch: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/dd52b72e1692dc407c3ebc4453918d396267ba11#diff-881c2d2ed1b4adf7f048dea0c629faf49113320c806303cda495ce661d83e46c
09:34 AM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> So debian/rules.in needs a looking at too.
09:40 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> Yeah.. I'm illiterate when it comes to anything to do with docs lol
09:41 AM lcnc-relay: <nutlinux@> I'm the kind of guy who would go as far as to write up a PDF and just have the makefile install it to /usr/share/packagename lol
11:38 AM rdtsc: does export MAKEFLAGS='-j 48 -l 8' (and GNUMAKEFLAGS) have any impact on parallelism?
11:38 AM rdtsc: during build
11:40 AM rdtsc: I've also greatly sped up some builds by using the mold linker https://github.com/rui314/mold just call mold -run <make or cmake command>
11:41 AM unterhausen: I have trouble with parallel builds on most of my systems because they run out of memory
11:41 AM rdtsc: true, do need lots of RAM though
11:41 AM unterhausen: thinking about cannibalizing memory out of one to make a build machine
11:43 AM rdtsc: uggh RAM prices are on the up again... https://www.amazon.com/s?k=DDR5&crid=LMB55QLBE4IK&sprefix=ddr5%2Caps%2C137&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
11:49 AM memleak: rdtsc, it depends if the source project accepts MAKEFLAGS/GNUMAKEFLAGS as an argument.
11:50 AM memleak: usually you pass `-j` options directly to make.
11:52 AM memleak: makeopt=$(make -j48 -l 8) then simply call `makeopt` instead of `make` if you want a macro
11:53 AM memleak: mold cannot be used in some instances but for the most part is a drop-in replacement for ld.bfd/ld.gold/ld.lld
11:57 AM memleak: https://bugs.gentoo.org/830404
12:17 PM memleak: eesh, yeah don't use MAKEFLAGS like that, just checked stackoverflow, very bad
12:19 PM memleak: one guy had this horrible solution: alias make='make -j' however if you tune it just a bit.. alias make='make -j48 -l 8'
12:19 PM memleak: using make -j will spawn unlimited processes lol
12:28 PM memleak: if you want parallelism at run-time you'd use graphite or polly btw
12:30 PM memleak: for GCC: -floop-nest-optimize and optionally -floop-parallelize-all assuming GCC was built with ISL
12:32 PM memleak: microcenter has a nice deal going on for 64GB of DDR5: https://www.microcenter.com/product/675552/corsair-vengeance-series-64gb-(2-x-32gb)-ddr5-5600-pc5-44800-cl40-dual-channel-desktop-memory-kit-cmk64gx5m2b5600c40-black ($70 off)
12:33 PM Tom_L: is DDR5 the same pinout as DDR4 just faster?
12:33 PM memleak: $100 for 32GB of DDR5
12:34 PM memleak: DDR5 does not fit in DDR4
12:34 PM memleak: different pinout
12:36 PM memleak: i wouldn't use amazon for any computer components unless the price was truly insane.
12:37 PM memleak: newegg has been shit lately
12:37 PM memleak: at least for GPUs.
01:14 PM memleak: hey snaked
01:15 PM memleak: damn, i paid like $150 for low-latency DDR4 @ 3200 MHz
01:15 PM memleak: (32GB)
01:16 PM memleak: actually come to think of if, i bought two 16GB kits so i paid even more
01:47 PM Guest85 is now known as EmcRules
01:47 PM EmcRules: Hello All. I'm playing around with With some Beckhoff 7041 stepper cards. I have them working but when i home my config my joint 0 starts spinning endlessly until Ferror gets triggered. I have the INI setup for immediate homing. Search and latch Vel are zero along with home. I have a value of 60 in the home offset. Line of thinking was that
01:47 PM EmcRules: home the joint an should not move and immediately be set to 60. Is this line of thinking correct?
02:54 PM memleak: hi EmcRules welcome to the channel!
02:55 PM EmcRules: thank!!
03:31 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Emcrules set it to 0 and see what you get
03:35 PM EmcRules: I think I found the problem. Or one of them.  The EL7041 is supposed to report a fake encoder value when the mod parameter is set accordingly It's not reporting anything so that's what is causing some of my following error stuff. If I set the home and home offset to zero everything works fine but my inverse kinematics fails because it's an
03:35 PM EmcRules: illegal position when switching from joint to cartesian.
03:35 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Above my pay grade lol
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> trying to do a proper lathe config right now for babylathe
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> but after I home axis, i can no longer jog z axis
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> im also not getting any z axis in preview, ]
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ahh z axis is a g18 thing
04:23 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> the jog thing is...something to do with how to configure the ini file...and after homing because of joint to axis...
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ah it was the joint/kins/axis stuff
05:44 PM BorgPipe is now known as netpipe
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841@> kins on a lathe?
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> not necessarily interesting by linuxcnc standards , but you can do a showcase for the opensource mill/router projects that are using linuxcnc? or something about some of the new driver board options ?
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> the nutating head thing is also awesome
06:23 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC 2.9.4 has been released. Details here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/2025/01/25/LinuxCNC-2.9.4/
06:23 PM netpipe: congrats
06:24 PM netpipe: version 3 has been a while in the making
06:26 PM Tom_L: thanks for your efforts andypugh
06:26 PM andypugh: Well, our software is really EMC2, I don’t see there ever being an EMC3 unless we change a _lot_
06:26 PM andypugh: The next version will be 2.10.
06:43 PM lcnc-relay: <andypugh@> big_kevin420@: I need links, not vague hints 🙂
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> andypugh@: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/show-your-stuff/49103-kinematic-model-for-a-5axis-mill-with-universal-45-nutating-head
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420@> ah crap thats not his machine,
07:46 PM roycroft: hi, folks
07:47 PM roycroft: i can report that my current nightmare is pretty much over - i just went on a short test drive in the pickup, and it seems to be fine
07:47 PM roycroft: the brakes are a tiny bit soft, and i'm out of brake fluid, so i can't bleed any more right now, and i have not inspected the passenger side hub yet
07:48 PM roycroft: but it felt good driving that thing again, after almost 2 months of down time
07:50 PM roycroft: it's actually six weeks, not two months, now that i check my receipts
07:50 PM roycroft: but still ...
09:07 PM lcnc-relay: <thorhian@> So can you use a 7c80/81 on a Pi 5 on 2.9.4?
10:34 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> thorhian@: good question, i build from source for 2.10pre
10:34 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> I have a write up on it, lemme get it somewhere publically accessible
10:36 PM lcnc-relay: <ccatlett1984@> https://canary.discord.com/channels/970073318357078036/970073721291292702/1332929996267851856