#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 28 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:33 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/mYIvqWNmSEyXpKFwgeyorDFO/IMG_20240828_002523.jpg
12:46 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> you think have cable track problems?
01:10 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> you think you have cable track problems?
01:45 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel> good morning
01:56 AM lcnc-relay: <TurBoss> morning
02:39 AM andypugh_ is now known as andypugh
04:24 AM Tom_L: morning
05:17 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:25 AM JT-Mobile: morning
05:31 AM Deejay: hi
06:06 AM lcnc-relay: <meisterdippel> moin
07:10 AM rdtsc-wk: @big_kevin420 [fixed offset for probe] That's an excellent idea. Got one of those amazon probes with the 6mm shank (machine being built) and was wondering how much of a hassle it would be to change tooling to probe. Could put a 6.01mm hole near the spindle, or even devise a tilt-away mount for it. GREAT, now more options to consider. :)
07:11 AM bjorkint0sh: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/07/white-collar-meetings-more-frequent/678941/
07:12 AM bjorkint0sh: White-Collar Work Is Just Meetings Now: The meeting-industrial complex has grown to the point that communications has eclipsed creativity as the central skill of modern work.
07:17 AM rdtsc-wk: Isn't it ironic, that the best way to spread Covid is to lock a bunch of people in a room for several hours multiple times a week? lol
07:23 AM bjorkint0sh: you've gotta be efficient.
07:24 AM rdtsc-wk: Don't understand "working from home." To me, "work" implies something physical, involving something you only have or get at work. I can't lug my work home - don't have the tools or resources to do that work at home. I'm sure it must be the same for lots of other people - so then does only I.T. support, customer service, and management get to work from home?
07:30 AM bjorkint0sh: in a lot of cases, they can.
07:31 AM bjorkint0sh: reason it doesn't happen is reluctance.
07:36 AM bjorkint0sh: rdtsc-wk: think about it. you're able to communicate with people who are no where near you, instantly.
07:36 AM bjorkint0sh: one of whom is trying to convince you that remote communication facilitates remote work.
08:07 AM bjorkint0sh: rdtsc-wk: also, you use open source software, is the creation of linux or lcnc not work in your books?
08:13 AM rdtsc-wk: Programming is something that can be done remotely, sure. And it certainly consumes time and requires skill, so is work. But my work, industrial electronics repair, pretty much requires physically being at the shop. Even if I brought customer boards / drives / units home, there's no tools or support infrastructure to complete said work at home. Same with any repair... or a waiter, butcher, heavy equip op, list goes on and on. Meetings and
08:13 AM rdtsc-wk: communication may apply to many people, but lots still do physical work and need physical access.
08:15 AM rdtsc-wk: We worked straight through the whole quarantine years. I'd wipe down the door handle every morning, along with the vending machine keys and other touchables - work had to go on
08:15 AM bjorkint0sh: well yes. there have always been different categories of work.
08:16 AM rdtsc-wk: Must say, it was REALLY nice driving back and forth to work during the pandemic though... almost no traffic. :)
08:16 AM bjorkint0sh: yes. I worked during the pandemic too.
08:16 AM bjorkint0sh: it was great.
08:16 AM bjorkint0sh: No speed checks on the roads either.
08:18 AM rdtsc-wk: Of course the long-term effects are still being felt in this business today - a roller-coaster-ride of ups-and-downs as lots of equipment failed during plant restarts, and slow plant operations
08:19 AM rdtsc-wk: 60-hour weeks and "take an extra day off this week as there's no work"
09:04 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:50 AM lcnc-relay: <die_limonade> To the people that helped me yesterday with my spindle encoder. I wanted to say thank you. I got it working.
09:51 AM lcnc-relay: <onceloved.cn> 👍
10:06 AM t4nk_fn: I have gotten so mad over bumping into some stupid box of hose clamps.. so many times...
10:06 AM t4nk_fn: and now that I actually neeeeed a hose clamp.. :|
10:06 AM t4nk_fn: can't friggin' find one
10:17 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I keep bumping into the sawmill bandsaw blades.. They draw blood.
10:35 AM bjorkint0sh: are you on the Saw movie set or something?
10:35 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> lol
10:36 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SOnsNQLCYxxQkppGJZQJPOjr/PXL_20240701_005759239.jpg
10:36 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> haven't found a good place to put them yet.
10:37 AM Tom_L: maybe at least aim the blade the other direction
10:39 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> but but - then the teeth are against the concrete..
10:39 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (you make it sound so easy...) 😉
10:41 AM Tom_L: hey, it's no skin off my arm....
10:44 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> unless you visit..
10:44 AM bjorkint0sh: hang them on a wall with plywood backing?
10:45 AM bjorkint0sh: or fold them up.
10:45 AM Tom_L: hang em from a hook from the ceiling and let em dangle
10:45 AM bjorkint0sh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFAPniN2zrk
10:45 AM Tom_L: star in a movie..
10:45 AM bjorkint0sh: How to Fold & Unfold Band Saw Blades | Tricks of the Trade
10:46 AM Tom_L: yeah i was gonna mention that but those are pretty thick
10:47 AM bjorkint0sh: shouldn't matter. much large saw blades come coiled, and can be re-coiled again.
10:51 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I haven't tried that yet. Dad could do it. I have boxes of new ones too.. Dad bought a bunch
10:55 AM bjorkint0sh: skunkworks: the whole process is described in the youtube video! neat hack.
11:05 AM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> there... had to learn how to give my dad an insulin shot... (he can hardly see the syringe lines to do it himself)
11:55 AM t4nk_fn: *sigh* ... now I'm thinking.. it was at the store where I kept bumping into them.. and never bought 'em ;)
12:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:28 PM JT-Mobile: skunkworks, you need to fold the bandsaw blades up to at least 3 loops
12:30 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> JT-Mobile: yes..
12:31 PM JT-Mobile: bigger ones to 5 loops and that's a bit tricky
12:35 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I don't remember how long these are..
12:37 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> 17ft (looked up an order recept from dads email)
12:37 PM JT-Mobile: long blade
12:37 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> 2" x .043" 1.1 TPI
12:37 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> lenox
12:41 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I mean - some of those blades are not exactly that.. but that was the blade that I think dad settled on.
12:52 PM rdtsc-wk: 1.1TPI, what's that for - gutting a forrest? lol
01:01 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> for band sawing large logs..
01:03 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU3dwWQOiCU
01:46 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (that one isn't that large.._
02:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:39 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I was showing the Fanuc guys how easy it is to have a clearly visible and easy to use GUI to control a CNC mill
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> they immediately recognized all the offsets and settings from my cell phone a few feet away
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> "but it's not standard"
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> so this the madness that has to be dealt with
05:19 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it's like never moving past DOS
05:20 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> then it was "yeah that's great for the operator but how about for the tech, there are no diagnostics"
05:21 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> then I pulled out Halscope, and the Haltools as asked "where is your scope?" "Oh that's right, you don't even know how to read one"
05:22 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> they are just pretentious asses
05:24 PM xxcoder: its NIH problem
05:24 PM xxcoder: not invented here
05:26 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> yes, that as well
05:50 PM Tom_L: to what extent are they refurbishing these machines?
05:53 PM JT-Mobile: yo
05:54 PM Tom_L: yo
05:54 PM xxcoder: yoda
05:55 PM JT-Mobile: tomorrow is the last day here
05:58 PM xxcoder: finishing up project eh
05:59 PM Tom_L: R & R
06:03 PM xxcoder: rest and relaxation eh
06:03 PM JT-Mobile: yup
06:08 PM bjorkint0sh: did you visit the thorn crown chapel?
06:08 PM Tom_L: quoted $200 ups $172 charged so that's a plus
06:09 PM JT-Mobile: we did last time
06:09 PM JT-Mobile: we did turpentine creek today
06:09 PM Tom_L: any caves?
06:09 PM Tom_L: she doesn't like em but we went to one last time years back
06:10 PM JT-Mobile: not much into caves
06:11 PM Tom_L: parents took us as kids and i think that left an impression
06:11 PM Tom_L: i've only been in maybe 2-3
06:12 PM bjorkint0sh: I knew a handful of Fay Jone's former students just from living in the general area.
06:13 PM JT-Mobile: we've been to a few around the area
06:36 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:36 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> just gonna say it captainhindsight_. the fanuc GUI has a better layout than linuxcnc gui, aside from the highlevel configuring and things used for setup. as a daily driver, it is more robust and has a more functional layout. i dont need to use a mouse or touch screen. sometimes its harder to navigate, but over all, it is more professionally laid out
07:01 PM rdtsc: there is something to be said about a good, familiar layout
07:01 PM rdtsc: and whole college degrees on achieving it (UI/UX experts)
07:02 PM rdtsc: Then there's JT and Tom, throwing a wrench into the machine, creating FlexGUI, whom anyone can tweak easily and make it look like anything. :)
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> 100% this. Most LinuxCNC GUIs are not easy to use when actually running a reasonably complex machine. They work but using even a seeming antiquated text based interface on a professional level control is so much nicer. I really need to try out FlexGUI to put together my dream interface 🙂
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah, the fanuc one looks mega shit, and the 3d graph is shit and so hard to use, but i can do everything so much faster, and easier, with just like 8 keyboard buttons (based on the fact that there are only about 7 dirty keys that idk what they say underneith)
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> and everything is in the right place, i dont need a jogging menu on the same page as my gcode display, they have an understanding on what you need at any given time, because a lot of things dont overlap, and you dont need everything on the same page all at once
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the fanuc gui makes linuxcnc look like mach3
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i said it
07:17 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> There is no linuxcnc gui
07:18 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> anything made after mini gui
07:18 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> someday all the fanuc fans are going to get together and actually build what they want, and everyone will clap
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> ive been working on it for a while now
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> mines pretty fanuc esque , which was the point
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but it looks too modern
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cakeslob/regularmac_800/main/2022-10-09-215142_1024x768_scrot.png
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> I've never looked too hard at a fanuc control, I just stared at their robot moving a car around
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but that might aswell be web 2.0 compared to fanuc
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> robot gui is dif than cnc gui
07:21 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://www.inventcom.net/p1/support/fanucconf/Fanuc31i_off.gif
07:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but i think we can all agree that the best gui
07:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> is the gui from jurassic parkl
07:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-OhLl0tdLVA/maxresdefault.jpg
07:31 PM bjorkintosh: that is clearly an SGI screen
07:32 PM bjorkintosh: but you're right. it's quite clearly laid out.
07:36 PM bjorkintosh: <big_kevin420> just gonna say it captainhindsight_. the fanuc GUI has a better layout than linuxcnc gui...
07:37 PM bjorkintosh: yes. fanuc has a market cap of 28.9 billion dollars
07:37 PM bjorkintosh: while linuxcnc? well.
07:37 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I run a pretty complicated machine with axis screen.. I really like it..
07:37 PM bjorkintosh: linuxcnc does not even register on any market! I say that's a mighty achievement for a bunch of voluntary effort.
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> you sound like mach users.. It doesn't look like a mach screen - ewwww.. It can't work..
07:38 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> 😉
07:38 PM bjorkintosh: moi?
07:39 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> *you guys
07:40 PM bjorkintosh: I'm happy with a commandline.
07:40 PM bjorkintosh: give me a green screen any day
07:41 PM xxcoder: what about classic yellow?
07:41 PM xxcoder: I only ever ran one machine with that classic yellow monocolor display
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> for setting up hal - sure! to run a machine? I really like a preview to show what mistakes I have made..
08:13 PM rdtsc: Flex is easy enough to try: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/flexgui/index.html and https://github.com/jethornton/flexgui/releases
08:14 PM rdtsc: installs with sudo dpkg -i flex... it creates a "copy flex examples" in the lcnc menu, do that... then just run any of the flex examples. :)
08:30 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Cakeslob: which LCNC gui are you referring to Axis?
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> big_kevin420 ^^
08:45 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> bjorkintosh : whenever I have conversations with Fanuc, Siemens and similar sales reps they usually start out all knowing and then speechless after asking them about anything other than milling or turning
08:46 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the conversations here remind me of PC vs Mac, since many are very well trained and just want what they are used to
08:49 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> one guy last night told me he can make a PLC do anything, but didn't have answer how to control simple XY2-100 galvos or how to tie in inkjet heads
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I agreed with him that inkjets are finicky but other than just outputting an enable his PLC technology can't help here
08:52 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the PLC techs and sales engineers never really do much besides milling and turning, so they don't really know about other things like additive tech
08:53 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> even adding image processing is done with a dumbed down black box like what Cognex offers
08:54 PM bjorkintosh: so what would you like to replace PLCs with? microcomputers? embedded devices?
08:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the industry is kinda screwed
08:55 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> ladder and PLC are legacy and allow companies to hire 1,000 monkeys to keep things running vs a few real engineers
08:55 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> at least now there are options for other than ladder
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://www.realpars.com/blog/ladder-logic-vs-other-languages
08:58 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the PLC industry keeps ladder going and sells them new PLC in 20 years that are backwards compatible
08:59 PM bjorkintosh: it's not hurting anything.
09:00 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it keeps the PLC vendors in business
09:00 PM bjorkintosh: sure why not?
09:00 PM bjorkintosh: I don't see a problem.
09:01 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I hope the Chinese start pushing $200 PLC's that last as long
09:01 PM bjorkintosh: pfft. there are plcs selling for 50 bucks these days.
09:01 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the actual capitalists in the room
09:01 PM bjorkintosh: and I'm not even talking about the openplc options: https://autonomylogic.com/
09:02 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I have to run, I'll go off on your tangent later
09:03 PM bjorkintosh: https://velocio.net/
09:03 PM bjorkintosh: very cheap plcs
09:03 PM bjorkintosh: it's a tried and true technology. Just Like CNC!
09:04 PM bjorkintosh: imagine replacing CNC with fucking C++ and C++ programmers. what a goddamned fucking nightmare that would be.
09:04 PM * bjorkintosh clutches his g-code to his chest.
09:05 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> semantics "PLCs with? microcomputers? embedded devices?"
09:06 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it's not hamsters on a wheel inside a PLC
09:07 PM bjorkintosh: I'm quite certain it is.
09:10 PM bjorkintosh: PLCs are in my mind, like paper and pencil. I can count 9 computers in my immediate vicinity, all running the latest M$ has to offer and linux of course. but I will yell at anyone who insists I work without paper and pencil.
09:11 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> but it shows me why so many systems almost work vs actually work
09:11 PM bjorkintosh: PLCs work.
09:11 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> almost
09:11 PM bjorkintosh: something written by programmers (c++ most likely)? well you have boeing falling out of the goddamned sky.
09:11 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> they work for simple things
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: or, in some cases, completely stuck in space.
09:12 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> 1,000 monkeys
09:12 PM rdtsc: at least our banking systems have upgraded from Cobol... oh wait, they haven't! ;)
09:12 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> gtg
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: I say the PLC techs are wiser than most programmers you will ever encounter.
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: because, they lack hubris.
09:12 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> heh
09:13 PM bjorkintosh: go to stackoverflow and see the programmers vomiting all over themselves in hubris. do you see the PLC techs there? no. they're too busy getting real things working!
09:14 PM bjorkintosh: like your water plant. they don't have time to debate 'plc vs embedded device' on IRC!
10:07 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Lol.. the 16 speed gearbox control is written in c... The tool changer is in PLC.. why? Because i could wrap my head around each solution. It just made sense to do each one - each way.
10:10 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> @bjorkintosh I see that you are very well trained
11:17 PM bjorkintosh: That I am. :-)
11:28 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> Morning 🙂