#linuxcnc-devel Logs

Nov 15 2022

01:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not enough people :)
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TurBoss: has offered a buildbot for LCNC!
01:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc-devel mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:26 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: talked to seb_kuzminsky about buildbot.linuxcnc.org, and I believe it is running stretch and will have a hard time talking to any buildbot running newer software.
01:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh it's no problem for Alec and Turboss
01:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alec doesn't need Seb's RTAI scripts anymore
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all new stuff
01:28 PM pere: seb_kuzminsky: is working on an upgrade, but was not sure when it would be ready. hoped in a few days.
01:28 PM pere: or perhaps a few days work, and no idea when he got time to do so. not sure.
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the problem is actually a license problem. LinuxCNC keeps complaining after the ./configure about how it's a non-distributable build, but that flag has to be set due to the readline GPL-v2/LGPL starting with Debian Bullseye, otherwise the configure will fail.Alec's main concern is
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alec's main concern is ^^^
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Curious, how are you guys legally hosting LinuxCNC Debian packages for Bullseye or Bookworm?
01:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: any thoughts on this issue?
01:30 PM pere: no idea if anyone considered it. I do not know which licenses changed when to cause this problem. perhaps it has been there forever and just recently surfaced?
01:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net/msg23329.html
01:31 PM pere: (and who is alec?)
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he is the RTAI developer
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he builds the RTAI kernels for LCNC
01:31 PM pere: aha
01:31 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/NTULINUX/
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "I'm going to be working with Paolo on getting RTAI and PREEMPT_RT on the same kernel, I have 99.9% of the code done (all the kernel code itself is done)"
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yup
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "I can make sure RTAI works with LinuxCNC myself, no need for Seb's stuff or anyone's VMs for that matter. Adding back in RTAI support though to the LinuxCNC Debian configure script would be helpful."
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but Andy or the next release manager needs a buildbot
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and anyone else trying to build and test packages for releases
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/2052 i think you two have already been chatting
01:34 PM pere: actually, I believ Andy needs debian packages built by something, for example a buildbot.
01:36 PM pere: we could re-enable the artifact uploads from github, but it was unreliable due to zip file size, I believe.
01:37 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: after a quick check on #2052, I see an Alec has been involved there, yes. I am terrible with names. :)
01:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no problem, I am still learning mine :)
01:43 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: which .deb need to be installed on debian to build RTAI linuxcnc?
01:48 PM pere: (Updated #2052 with a similar question)
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: please wait for his response
01:50 PM pere: hoped you knew. :)
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I avoid software to best of my abilities
01:54 PM pere: I believe your presence prove your failure? :)
02:53 PM seb_kuzminsky: just so we're all on the same page with respect to scale...
02:53 PM pere: hi
02:53 PM pere: scale?
02:53 PM seb_kuzminsky: the buildbot currently consists of ~20 VMs, each with 2 CPUs, 4 GB RAM, and ~20 GB disk. The buildmaster has 200 GB disk, mostly to host the package archive
02:54 PM seb_kuzminsky: some of those VMs can be retired when we EOL 2.8
02:54 PM pere: how many buildbots are needed?
02:54 PM seb_kuzminsky: some VMs will need to be added to support bullseye, bookworm, and sid
02:55 PM seb_kuzminsky: terminology: "one buildbot" consists of "one buildmaster" and "one or more build workers". We only need one buildbot, and it only needs to contain one buildmaster, but it needs one build worker for each platform we want to support
02:56 PM seb_kuzminsky: if we're testing kernel-independent userspace stuff then we can get away with running the build workers in containers or chroots or whatever, so we don't need one VM per build worker
02:56 PM seb_kuzminsky: but for kernel-mode RTAI we absolutely need a VM for each build worker
02:57 PM seb_kuzminsky: and if we want to test the realtime-specific parts of rtapi_app, then we need a VM for each build worker
02:57 PM seb_kuzminsky: i have plenty of hardware on hand to run all these VMs (thanks to Sam for the recent donation of an additional server!)
02:58 PM seb_kuzminsky: but as we all know, having me be the only person who can access the buildbot is not a good solution, because i don't have the bandwidth to maintain it adequately
02:59 PM seb_kuzminsky: i would be very interested in hearing proposals for a system where the buildbot doesn't live on my home network, so that my privacy concerns do not stop us from having a *team* of volunteers working on it
03:00 PM pere: would it make it easier if the master were outside your home, while you ran a bunch of workers only at home?
03:01 PM seb_kuzminsky: that would help some, yes...
03:02 PM seb_kuzminsky: it's convenient but not strictly necessary to have the master and the workers connected by a fast network, since they transfer debs between them
03:03 PM seb_kuzminsky: and currently, i have an optimization where the master has a local clone of the linuxcnc repo so i only have to fetch from github once for each build, not once for each worker
03:05 PM pere: not sure who can host such master, though.
03:07 PM seb_kuzminsky: the buildmaster needs 2 CPUs, 2+ GB RAM, 200 GB disk, and a fast network connection. it needs to accept TCP connections on an arbitrary port from all the build workers
03:10 PM seb_kuzminsky: if we can find a new place for the buildmaster, then we could make a linuxcnc-buildbot team and all have ssh access there, and maintain it together
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: from what i understand this applies to using your (Seb) toolchains and scripts as is
03:10 PM linuxcnc-build: build #4856 of 4017.deb-wheezy-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_1] Build details are at http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4017.deb-wheezy-amd64/builds/4856 blamelist: andypugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: turboss has offered his server
03:11 PM seb_kuzminsky: it's really not that much work to maintain the buildmaster, except this one time right now to upgrade it from buildbot 0.8 on stretch to buildbot 3.x on bookworm (or whatever) (and assuming this actually works, which i believe but don't have great confidence in yet)
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he already hosts qtpyvcp
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rod has another free offer from his host in Australia
03:13 PM seb_kuzminsky: CaptHindsight[m]: not sure what you mean by "my toolchain and scripts"... the buildbot uses the standard debian toolchain for building/testing/packaging, the only custom stuff is a few pages of shell scripts to manage the debian package archive at blo/dists and the buildmaster config itself (which it a bit like the github actions file, it says how to do each step)
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT is building one at home but he's learning as he goes, no sure about making it public over starlink
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "my toolchain and scripts". = standard debian toolchain for building/testing/packaging, the only custom stuff is a few pages of shell scripts
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alec has already said he doesn't need any of the RTAI scripts that are used
03:15 PM seb_kuzminsky: the debian package archive at wlo and blo use the same scripts, small wrappers around apt-ftparchive
03:15 PM seb_kuzminsky: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/infrastructure/blob/master/update-deb-archive
03:18 PM seb_kuzminsky: i created the buildbot in 2011. i think once this buildmaster upgrade is done, the buildbot can slumber for another 11 years before it becomes a pain point again
03:23 PM pere: seb_kuzminsky: is the buildbot setup in a public git?
03:23 PM JT-Cave: seb_kuzminsky, do you have any notes on setting up the buildbot?
03:24 PM seb_kuzminsky: JT-Cave: i only have the notes for setting up a build worker: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildslave-admin-guide.html
03:25 PM seb_kuzminsky: pere: the buildmaster config is not in a public repo, but it should be
03:26 PM seb_kuzminsky: it contains the credentials that the workers use to authenticate to the master, so that needs to be sanitized somehow
03:26 PM pere: right.
03:28 PM JT-Shop: seb_kuzminsky, thanks
03:28 PM seb_kuzminsky: JT-Shop: that file is only good for dists up through buster unfortunately, since that's all that's in the buildbot right now, which is the reason for this whole fiasco in the first place
03:28 PM seb_kuzminsky: pere: the new (post-stretch) buildmaster has better management of secrets like that
03:28 PM JT-Shop: it may give me some clues
03:30 PM pere: perhaps better to set up a new external buildmaster and migrate the workers one by one to this new master?
05:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc-devel mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc-devel mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:10 PM JT-Cave is now known as jthornton
05:18 PM Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
05:18 PM Tom_dev is now known as Tom_L
05:20 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_1
05:20 PM Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
05:20 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
05:22 PM jthornton is now known as JT-Cave
05:22 PM Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
05:22 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_dev
05:45 PM -!- #linuxcnc-devel mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:37 PM Tom_1 is now known as Tom_L
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