#linuxcnc-devel Logs

Sep 07 2017

12:01 AM KimK: Hi all, dpkg-checkbuildeps says I need w3c-linkchecker, but w3c-linkchecker wants to install apache2 and a bunch of other stuff that I'd rather not. Any advice or suggestions? Thanks in advance.
12:02 AM KimK: (This is on our Debian Wheezy ISO install.)
12:06 AM hazzy: I don't think I have ever installed w3c-linkchecker, even though dpkg-checkbuildeps says it is needed
12:06 AM hazzy: It has been a while since I built on a new Linux install though so I may be wrong
12:06 AM KimK: OK, so just forge ahead? Will do. Thanks!
12:07 AM hazzy: hmm, it does look like I have w3c-linkchecker installed ...
12:09 AM KimK: And Apache2?
12:10 AM hazzy: I don't think so, let me check
12:12 AM hazzy: Turns out I do have apache2
12:13 AM hazzy: I though I remembered not installing w3c-linkchecker in the past, but now I am not sure
12:18 AM KimK: I understand. On my main desktop, I'd just install it and move on (probably already did?), but on some of these smaller "CNC machine only" installs, I'd rather not have a web server running, or even installed and idle, if I can avoid it. Not sure about the long list of other stuff with Apache2.
12:20 AM KimK: Didn't really look, saw Apache2 at the front of the list and went (!?)
12:25 AM hazzy: Sorry I can't help more. I know I don't install any of the deps that seem remotely unnecessary on the small Atom boards
12:25 AM hazzy: For example the languages and doc tools
12:26 AM hazzy: I would think that w3c-linkchecker is just for the docs so would not be necessary, but I don't now for sure
12:29 AM hazzy: Just did a quick search to see were w3c-linkchecker is used, looks like it is only needed to build the HTML docs
12:29 AM KimK: Thanks, I'd have guessed that w3c-linkchecker is for docs. Maybe the messages from dpkg-checkbuilddeps could be improved to say, "You need (xxx yyy zzz) and if you're building docs you need (uuu vvv www)." Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that.
12:30 AM KimK: s/building docs you need/building docs you also need/
12:31 AM hazzy: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/014b9d0fe1caaa2a7594fd946844423a702231f2/debian/configure#L149
12:32 AM hazzy: So it is listed in DOC_DEPENDS but dpkg-checkbuildeps does not indicate that
12:41 AM KimK: Maybe dpkg-checkbuild deps could be run twice, to get two different output lists? Or run once, with some kind of option selector like ./configure? (--normal or --build-docs or whatever)?
12:42 AM hazzy: It seems like something like that would make since
12:43 AM hazzy: I think the RIP gives a full development install, but for most things that is probably not needed
12:45 AM mozmck: You can tell it not to build docs
12:47 AM hazzy: Goodnight KimK
12:47 AM KimK: Hi mozmck! Yes, I think not to build docs is still the default, it seemed to "make" OK here without w3c-linkchecker
12:47 AM * hazzy hits the hay
12:47 AM KimK: Goodnight hazzy, thanks again
12:47 AM hazzy: np
12:47 AM mozmck: Hi KimK! yes, that is the default I see.
12:49 AM mozmck: When installing dependencies, make sure you use --no-recommends or something like that. Or find where to make it not consider recommended packages as dependencies.
12:51 AM KimK: OK, thanks, I'll look into that. My main objection was that I didn't want a full web server install on a CNC machine, and it looks like I don't have to have one, so, great!
12:51 AM mozmck: Anyhow, don't know if that is quite what you were asking about. Are you trying to build on these machines or just install?
12:52 AM KimK: I wanted to be able to run master or something under development, but not building docs is OK.
12:53 AM mozmck: Doesn't the buildbot make packages that would work?
12:54 AM KimK: I don't know, I didn't consider that (Sorry, Seb!) That's something to think about, though.
12:56 AM KimK: Are you still the prospective release manager for 2.8?
12:57 AM mozmck: Well, I think so, but I have really not had time to do anything about it.
12:59 AM KimK: That's OK, maybe 2.8 isn't quite ready yet anyway? More changes than anything recently, surely. Maybe ever?
01:36 AM KimK is now known as KimK_
01:36 AM KimK_ is now known as KimK
12:04 PM seb_kuzminsky: KimK: hi there!
12:05 PM seb_kuzminsky: if you're installing linuxcnc debs from wlo or from the buildbot, it does not install w3c-linkchecker
12:05 PM seb_kuzminsky: if you want to build linuxcnc from source, it *will* install w3c-linkchecker
12:07 PM seb_kuzminsky: w3c-linkchecker Depends on a bunch of things it needs to run (perl...), and Recommends things it thinks it works well with but that are optional, like apache
12:08 PM seb_kuzminsky: there's a setting in apt that controls whether or not it installs Recommended packages by default
12:08 PM seb_kuzminsky: you can see the setting with `apt-config dump | grep Recommends`
12:13 PM seb_kuzminsky: you can override the setting with "apt-get -o APT::Install-Recommends=0 install w3c-linkchecker"
12:16 PM seb_kuzminsky: dpkg-checkbuilddeps is what's used to build our official packages, and we use w3c-linkchecker to validate the internal links in our html docs
12:17 PM seb_kuzminsky: if you wanted to get dpkg-checkbuilddeps to not talk about packages needed to build docs, you'd need to get debian/configure to not mention any docs in debian/control, and then teach debian/rules to not try to build the docs
12:18 PM seb_kuzminsky: it's a feature that's been requested from time to time, but no one has offered patches yet, and it's not applicable for "official" builds, where we *do* want to build validated docs
12:20 PM pcw_mesa: skunkworks: remember if you disconnect the velocity derivative from the PID compinent, the PID component will create ist own derivative
12:20 PM pcw_mesa: so it may make no difference
12:21 PM pcw_mesa: Not sure if theres any difference in the delays
12:32 PM jepler: with encoder feedback, the position is "chunky" so the estimated derivative quality is poor. With stepgen (and pll), the feedback position is high quality and high resolution, so the estimated derivitive is pretty good
12:32 PM jepler: (without PLL, derivative estimation is also affected much more by jitter)
12:42 PM pcw_mesa: I was not thinking this through, with normal stepgen tuning its really a no-op since you dont have any D term
12:44 PM jepler: that's true too
01:11 PM skunkworks: pcw_mesa, jepler, thanks!
05:14 PM jepler: >
05:14 PM jepler: 16:12 CDT
05:14 PM jepler: We are investigating delays with webhook deliveries.
05:14 PM jepler: oh look github is having problems today
05:14 PM jepler: -> pushes not announced on IRC, buildbot not triggered...
05:15 PM jepler: 16:43 CDT
05:15 PM jepler: Webhook deliveries are delayed while we process a large backlog of events.
05:15 PM jepler: well maybe it'll shake loose soon
05:37 PM JT-Shopp is now known as JT-Shop
06:06 PM seb_kuzminsky: jepler: awesome