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[00:59:52] <seb_kuzminsky> configure: WARNING: 'missing' script is too old or missing
[04:48:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja9_updates 425bf31 06linuxcnc 10scripts/sim_pin sim_pin: make ivalue name consistent * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=425bf31
[04:48:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja9_updates 96d2c2c 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man1/sim_pin.1 10docs/src/hal/tools.txt 10scripts/sim_pin sim_pin: support cmdline mode for bit items * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=96d2c2c
[04:48:41] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja9_updates 19c1ea2 06linuxcnc 10scripts/sim_pin sim_pin: add plus,minus buttons for integers * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=19c1ea2
[07:28:45] <skunkworks> mozmck:
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&p=106647
[07:34:02] <mozmck> skunkworks: interesting thread
[07:36:00] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: are you expecting rtai and uspace together to give RT performance? (I wouldn't) Or are you working on the mythical second rtos support for uspace?
[07:36:43] <jepler> I have some barely-started patch somewhere, but it didn't even build before I got distracted by some other shiny thing
[07:46:27] <skunkworks> mozmck: there are a few people now saying mesa is only wanting support oem... ugh
[07:49:31] <Tom_itx> due to slow shipping times?
[07:51:35] <skunkworks> probably
[07:58:44] <mozmck> I saw that - but I don't think that's true?
[08:42:34] <skunkworks> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/29809-mesa?start=10
[08:49:38] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: i'm doing with rtai what we've always been doing, nothing new or exciting
[08:49:53] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: OK
[08:50:02] <jepler> oh you said "trying to build the userspace now", not "build uspace now"
[08:50:03] <seb_kuzminsky> "userspace" was the wrong word i meant "non-kernel-patch stuff"
[08:50:12] <jepler> I fail my reading comprehension checks frequently. it's sad actually.
[12:39:45] <seb_kuzminsky> successfully configured for 'Debian-8.2'-'3.16.0-9-rtai-686-pae'..
[12:55:11] <JT-shop> yea
[12:55:24] <skunkworks> seb_kuzminsky: Yay@
[12:55:25] <skunkworks> !
[13:05:39] <skunkworks> seb_kuzminsky: did it 'just work' tm?
[13:53:01] <skunkworks> andypugh: !
[13:53:09] <skunkworks> how are the castings coming?
[13:54:46] <andypugh> I am taking the patterns to a friebd tomorrow. He lives in the same town as the foundry, and uses the guy quite a lt.
[13:55:05] <skunkworks> nice
[13:55:50] <skunkworks> I know dad has asked around a few years ago - and atleast one of the local foundrys said they would do one off for not too much.
[13:57:51] <andypugh> Sand castings are (effectively) always one-offs
[13:58:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja9_updates 9313d26 06linuxcnc 10(7 files in 3 dirs) wheel world jogging * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=9313d26
[13:58:25] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja9_updates 7a00edd 06linuxcnc 03configs/sim/axis/ldelta_demo.ini 03configs/sim/axis/ldelta_demo.txt configs/axis/ldelta_demo new sim config * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a00edd
[13:59:05] <skunkworks> heh - yes
[14:06:02] <skunkworks> andypugh: ^ is that commit what you where looking for?
[14:06:50] <andypugh> Oooh!
[14:09:47] <cradek> OMG
[14:10:32] <skunkworks> keeps getting better and better!
[14:10:46] <skunkworks> about time to merge? ;)
[14:17:40] <seb_kuzminsky> awesome dgarr
[14:37:11] <cradek> I need to look at the g52 branch again now that jt has fixed up all the docs problems that stumped me
[14:45:26] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: the linux 3.16.7, rtai 4.1 kernel & userspace packages are built, but rtai's latency check program doesn't run, and linuxcnc doesnt compile with it yet
[14:55:49] <skunkworks> 4.1? shiny
[19:17:31] <andypugh> cradek: You there?
[19:37:11] <andypugh> I am curious about your VM…. can you try removing Orage and ePdf, but one at a time. like I didn’t? I _think_ that removing one of those made autoremove want to remove
http://www.pastebin.ca/3263900
[19:37:16] <andypugh> Which is quite the list
[19:38:13] <andypugh> highlights include lightdm, mousepad, thunar, netowrk manager
[19:46:08] <jepler> andypugh: I booted the 2.7 iso and did: apt-get remove --dry-run --auto-remove orage
[19:46:17] <jepler> it does want to remove a lot of packages
[19:46:40] <andypugh> network manager and lightdm ?
[19:47:07] <jepler> this is because removing orage forces removal of xfce4, which in turn forces removal of task-xfce-desktop
[19:47:23] <andypugh> what the {bleep} is Orage anyway?
[19:47:26] <jepler> and then all those listed packages become auto-removable, since they were installed as a dependency of xfce4 or task-xfce-desktop
[19:47:37] <jepler> a calendar, apparently
[19:48:08] <jepler> removing epdfview doesn't cause an aptpocalypse
[19:48:41] <andypugh> Yeah, it makes total sense that removing a calendar I never use also removes every other useful thing in the OS, including the things you would need to fix the OS again. Like networking
[19:49:06] <andypugh> Surely that’s a bug?
[19:49:36] <jepler> it is a behavior that will exist in unmodified debian
[19:50:19] <jepler> if it is a bug it is a bug in the specification of the dependencies of package xfce, I suppose
[19:51:15] <jepler> in debian jessie (current stable), xfce still depends orage so you can pursue it as a bug at bugs.debian.org if it is important to you
[19:51:46] <andypugh> It seems back to front, somewaht
[19:51:57] <andypugh> I am not the first:
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/187593/how-to-remove-unwanted-desktop-packages-from-debian-without-deleting-everything
[19:52:40] <andypugh> Though it seems he could get back, he didn’t lose DNS resolution, so could rfeinstall
[19:59:59] <jepler> I guess the most you can say in defense of apt is that it says at each step what it's going to do..
[20:01:59] <andypugh> Yes, but now I can never use autoremove again
[20:02:25] <andypugh> Unless (possibly) I manually install XFce?
[20:02:52] <jepler> let me get that vm up again and see what I can see
[20:03:05] <jepler> it depends how strong is your wish that orage be uninstalled
[20:05:01] <jepler> in my vm, I did 'apt get remove orage' which removed xfce4 and task-xfce-desktop as already discussed
[20:05:15] <jepler> which of course makes all those packages auto-removable
[20:05:46] <jepler> doing apt-get install task-xfce-desktop reinstalls orage and also makes the list of auto-removable packages go back down to 0
[20:06:21] <andypugh> I was just trying to remove stuff that a CNC controller doesn’t need. It doesn’t need a calendar, but unless I use Keystick, it does need some sort of GUI
[20:09:43] <jepler> I understand the impulse
[20:13:08] <andypugh> I just got bitten badly by a) not reading the list and b) not expecting the whole GUI and networking to be a dependency of a calendar
[20:13:16] <jepler> if you want to find some fat that *can* be trimmed, you may want to look at task-xfce-desktop's list of Recommends:
[20:13:28] <seb_kuzminsky> remove it with dpkg instead of apt
[20:13:39] <seb_kuzminsky> then it won't pull the rest of the world down with it
[20:13:41] <jepler> a Recommends: can be removed without removing the package that names it
[20:13:56] <jepler> I'm not sure about seb_kuzminsky's advice so I'll fire up the vm again and test it
[20:14:42] <jepler> dpkg --remove orage refuses to do it
[20:15:11] <andypugh> At this point it probably makes sense to reinstall orage and pretend it doesn’t exis
[20:16:23] <jepler> doing that makes apt-get tell you that packages have unmet dependencies; running apt-get -f install as suggested reinstalls orage
[20:17:07] <jepler> someone who wanted to get familiar enough with debian packaging could make a task-cnc which pulls in just enough desktop to permit linuxcnc to work with a graphical UI and doesn't depend on stuff that's irrelevant to cnc
[20:17:51] <andypugh> Yes, I am sure that someone could :-)
[20:17:52] <jepler> look at the dependencies and recommends of xfce4 and task-xfce4-desktop, and pare it down as needed
[20:18:37] <andypugh> But my particular “someone” wants to get back to machining metal.
[20:18:56] <jepler> yeah I know the feeling
[20:19:13] <jepler> not that I've machined anything in years, but still
[20:19:40] <jepler> it's too easy yet not at all satisfying to get distracted by things 2 and 3 steps away what you actually want
[20:20:26] <andypugh> I don’t mind that. But it needs to be my choice.
[20:21:33] <andypugh> I am currently very interested in different ways to do absolute homing with two resolvers. I don’t need that, but it’s something I want to look at. I don’t want to be fighting Apt
[20:28:00] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: --force-depends
[20:29:40] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: yes, I ran dpkg --remove --force-depends=xfce4 orage
[20:29:51] <jepler> apt-get insists you run apt-get -f install, and doing that reinstalls orage
[20:31:45] <mozmck> Is system configuration much different in jessie now that it uses systemd?
[20:32:42] <jepler> mozmck: there are a few hassles I have to re-fix on every new system, but I haven't written down a list. dns and ntp are the two main things I recall needing to change before it behaved like I preferred
[20:32:48] <andypugh> Is there a way other than dpkg-checkbuildeps to get all the stuff needed to build linuxcnc?
[20:32:51] <jepler> after that, systemd keeps out of the way mostly
[20:33:18] <jepler> andypugh: mk-build-deps produces a .deb which requires all the things that debian/contro lists as build-depends. I prefer doing that.
[20:33:23] <mozmck> ok. I haven't played with it much yet.
[20:33:38] <jepler> that's in package devscripts, and it additionally needs the package equivs
[20:34:52] <mozmck> andypugh: here is the command I run: run 'mk-build-deps -B control' - inside the debian directory
[20:35:55] <mozmck> Is there a way to customize the debian installer and make it ask less questions easily?
[20:36:53] <jepler> mozmck: > Preseeding provides a way to set answers to questions asked during the installation process, without having to manually enter the answers while the installation is running. This makes it possible to fully automate most types of installation and even offers some features not available during normal installations.
[20:36:59] <jepler> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed
[20:37:15] <mozmck> ooh, interesting! thanks!
[20:37:41] <jepler> welcome
[20:38:17] <andypugh> I want it to ask more questions. Like “do you have a preferred UID”, “Would you like Orage”, “Do you really want Libre Office”
[20:39:00] <mozmck> heh, for most users, they have no clue what most of that means - or stuff about the partitions, etc - they just want a machine controller.
[20:40:19] <andypugh> It would be nice to have “give me lots of potentially useful app” or “just give me a bare-bones system with LinuxCNC, a text editor, a web browser and a package manager”
[20:40:36] <mozmck> That would be a nice option.
[20:44:21] <mozmck> hmm, this looks interesting:
http://www.instalinux.com/
[20:46:35] <andypugh> Incidentally, what is Mousepad for? Why would you write a text editor that can only open one file at a time?
[20:47:09] <jepler> the infrastructure cradek uses to build our live iso image lives here
http://timeguy.com/gitweb?p=live-images.git;a=summary -- clone url git://git.timeguy.com/live-images.git and then you have to manually check out branch 'debian'
[20:48:00] <jepler> some .list files are combined and they say what to install. I don't know the details
[20:48:11] <jepler> the stuff only works on debian wheezy, not anything newer.
[20:48:19] <jepler> and probably not on anything older
[20:49:05] <mozmck> thanks - I think I have that one.
[20:49:31] <mozmck> andypugh: Mousepad handles multiple files if it is new enough - and syntax highlighting etc.
[20:51:23] <andypugh> mozmck: Oh, OK. Never exclude the possibilty of user error where I am concerned.
[20:51:55] <mozmck> for some reason it does not open new files in a new tab but uses a new window by default - I don't know if you can change that or not.
[20:52:15] <mozmck> I can drag and drop them onto a mousepad window and it will open them in a new tab in that window.
[20:53:27] <andypugh> In my experience it opens a new window and closes the old window
[20:53:46] <andypugh> But, perhaps I just don’t get on with computers
[20:54:20] <andypugh> for example, on my system, mk-build-deps gives me “command not found”
[20:54:40] <mozmck> apt-get install devscripts
[20:56:46] <andypugh> You know what? it’s 0230 and I am going to give up. This has been an evening to forget
[20:57:01] <andypugh> But thanks for trying to help
[20:57:14] <mozmck> np, get some sleep!
[21:07:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05rtai-4.1 d3ee591 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure debian/configure: accept linux the new kernel without complaint * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3ee591
[21:07:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05rtai-4.1 174d8f0 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile.inc.in 10src/configure.in 10src/hal/Submakefile handle building under RTAI 4.1 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=174d8f0
[21:08:17] <seb_kuzminsky> the kernel and rtai-modules are here if anyone wants to check it out:
[21:08:18] <seb_kuzminsky> deb
http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc jessie main
[21:08:22] <seb_kuzminsky> it doesn't work yet
[21:08:40] <seb_kuzminsky> something's wrong with rtai's rtai_math.ko, and with some other parts too :-/
[21:09:46] <mozmck> I think that is some of the stuff that Alec worked on
[21:10:06] <mozmck> His branch is supposed to work with linuxcnc, but I don't know what all is different
[21:18:06] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky:
https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI.git
[21:24:58] <jepler> he has said that kernelspace math is totally broken in upstream rtai, and that a good portion of his effort is flogging that along
[21:26:52] <seb_kuzminsky> rtai 4.1 does a crazy thing, of linking userspace object code from libc6-dev (libm.a) into a kernel module
[21:29:03] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd sure love it if there was one rtai dev community instead of 3+
[21:30:05] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: no way in hell that'll work
[21:30:21] <jepler> never mind that linuxcnc has also tried a variant of that in the (distant) past
[21:32:00] <jepler> c9f93c1 rtapi: drop support for alternate math libs
[21:32:12] <jepler> apparently I only deleted the dead support for that in 2014
[21:50:29] <linuxcnc-build> build #267 of 1502.rip-jessie-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1502.rip-jessie-amd64/builds/267 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[21:51:17] <linuxcnc-build> build #3653 of 0000.checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/0000.checkin/builds/3653 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[23:07:40] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05rtai-4.1 48c199e 06linuxcnc 10debian/configure accept the new amd64 rtai kernel without complaint * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=48c199e