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[07:40:07] <jepler> one of us is supposed to write up what we did while working on ja, and what we now know still needs to be accomplished.
[07:40:29] <jepler> we had hoped to run ja on cradek's little lathe, but I gave up for the night before buildbot had finished building the commit in question :-/
[08:09:40] <micges> jepler: that's great
[09:18:00] <skunkworks> cool!
[09:18:40] <skunkworks> I could test the ja branch on the k&t also - it has a B only ais
[09:18:42] <skunkworks> axis
[09:20:34] <micges> skunkworks: XYB?
[09:21:39] <skunkworks> no - xyzb
[09:21:47] <skunkworks> (skipped a - we had issues with that before.
[09:23:34] <micges> ah
[09:24:32] <skunkworks> that would be cool though :)
[09:31:06] <micges> I have XYC working great with ja
[09:54:17] <skunkworks> cool
[10:01:31] <jepler> the sim lathe config with dummy joint 1 worked for us
[10:11:45] <skunkworks> cool
[10:12:06] <skunkworks> it was partly a axis gui issue - wasn't it?
[10:17:53] <jepler> I'm not sure how ot answer that without sounding defensive.
[10:18:13] <jepler> since I would like AXIS to support nontrivial kinematics machines, I can agree that some changes to the UI are likely to be necessary
[10:19:55] <jepler> the two issues I fixed both initially looked like soft limits bugs in AXIS.
[10:20:02] <skunkworks> heh - didn't mean it that way.. I thought there was an issue between how axis counted the number of axis vs how JA thought it was counted or something liket hat.
[10:20:15] <jepler> One of them *was* a soft limits bug in AXIS, but it was one introduced in the ja branch way back in 2008!
[10:20:18] <jepler> and the other was a task bug
[10:21:42] <jepler> one remaining UI issue that I'm not sure how to attack yet is displaying home icons next to axis letters in the DRO for gentrivkins machines
[10:22:34] <jepler> for truly nontrivial machines you'd only show the home symbol next to joint numbrers, but for missing axis machines and possibly even gantry machines it remains desirable to show a home icon next to *axes*
[10:22:53] <jepler> similarly for the "on limit switch" indicators
[10:24:02] <ssi> do non-trivial machines always end up being controlled in cartesian space, or are there other options like polar?
[10:26:29] <jepler> gcode has a polar notation.
[10:26:53] <skunkworks> heh - I had this long paragraph and it boils down to what jepler said...
[10:27:19] <skunkworks> and something to the effect as you are using Gcode to control it..
[10:27:21] <jepler> but you could also define, say, a machine with XC axes
[10:28:02] <ssi> is gcode flexible enough to describe either spherical or cylindrical spaces, or is it fixed to one or the other?
[10:46:43] <cradek> our polar notation directly describes a cylindrical system, but there's nothing like spherical coordinates
[11:22:50] <jepler> If you work with XBC, YAC, ZAB coordinates you can think of things in spherical fashion.
[11:23:51] <ssi> but I guess you'd basically be working in three discrete planes, and changing planes occasionally
[11:38:40] <jepler> I decided to try installing *just* the LinuxCNC forum on a whole new Joomla installation. I would be happy to have someone kick the tires at this point. I think existing logins work, except that every user's permissions have been reset to the basic "registered" level. The testing forum is at
http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net
[11:39:20] <jepler> ALL THE DATA WILL BE DELETED but if this experiment is a success then I would hope to announce an upcoming migration on the forum real soon, and actually perform the migration sometime in the next two weeks, probably on a weekend
[11:39:41] <jepler> if you do look at it, please let me know your experience, positive or negative.
[11:40:26] <jepler> by "ALL THE DATA WILL BE DELETED", I mean that if you make posts on that site they will be discarded; I do intend to migrate all the forum contents with a fresh copy from the current website
[11:40:54] <jepler> then after the forum is on its own subsite and running on current versions of php, joomla, and kunena, we can upgrade our main website without worrying about the forum contents
[11:42:06] <ssi> seems to work really well
[11:43:12] <jepler> I haven't done anything about themes and so forth, as I'm sure you can tell.
[11:44:02] <archivist> I can see pictures, and no obvious warts
[11:59:00] <jepler> yay thank you both
[11:59:05] <jepler> comments from others still welcome
[12:38:36] <skunkworks> the only thing I see odd is the avatars didn't come through.
[12:38:47] <skunkworks> other than that - working great
[12:38:50] <cradek> I got the email
[12:38:55] <skunkworks> cool
[12:39:18] <jepler> i fixed the profile pages
[12:39:56] <jepler> it may have fixed avatars too? at least this post has an avatar now
http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/29-forum-announcements/29602-linuxcnc-2-7-0-released#62162
[12:39:59] <cradek> my profile timezone and maybe other things were lost
[12:40:02] <jepler> yes
[12:40:55] <jepler> they apparently changed how timezone was noted in profiles, which broke profile pages
[12:41:00] <jepler> so I just deleted all that information
[12:41:09] <skunkworks> I am not seeing any other than bigjt's avitar
[12:41:21] <jepler> ok, hm
[12:41:31] <skunkworks> I know pcw had one
[12:43:10] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/my-profile-usermenu-17/userprofile/PCW
[12:43:13] <jepler> yes he does
[12:43:42] <jepler> hmmm
[12:43:51] <jepler> apparently there are two places that profile pictures can be stored
[12:44:22] <cradek> I wonder why sam's post didn't show up on
http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/topics/posts?format=feed
[12:47:01] <jepler> looks like most profile pictures are associated with communitybuilder, which I did not install
[12:47:09] <jepler> but a few are associated directly to the forum, and those transfer
[12:52:07] <jepler> cradek: I don't know; it is supposed to show posts, not topics, so I would expect the replies to be in the rss as well
[12:53:41] <jepler> https://github.com/Kunena/Kunena-Forum/issues/2105
[12:58:19] <jepler> no, they say that one's fixed..
[13:02:45] <cradek> now it appeared
[13:03:44] <jepler> really?
[13:04:15] <jepler> the rss still isn't right for me
[13:07:50] <jepler> hm it is in a private browsing window
[13:11:16] <jepler> must be some caching sabotage going on. there is a 15-minute cache in joomla itself, but what I'm seeing goes beyond that
[13:22:42] <jepler> I also can't figure out how to enable adding a profile picture!
[14:11:16] <jepler> that was more of an ordeal than I expected
[14:29:28] <jepler> I am going to post a message on the forum along these lines. edit suggestions welcome.
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/forum-upgrade-notice.txt
[14:30:15] <jepler> afk
[14:33:22] <andypugh> It looks OK from here.
[14:37:31] <cradek> what are the existing anti-spammer-signup tools?
[14:42:49] <jepler> I'm not sure
[14:43:13] <jepler> in the testing site I think I've set it up so that the first 3 posts by any user require filling out a google recaptcha
[14:43:19] <jepler> but signing up as a user doesn't
[14:45:47] <jepler> .. because a plug-in to do recaptcha at sign-up time is a paid-only add-on to the community builder add-on, while the one inside the forum software at post time is free
[14:46:51] <jepler> and I don't plan to buy any add-ons
[14:47:46] <jepler> andypugh: thanks for your testing
[14:48:19] <cradek> does it already have an email confirmation for signup?
[14:48:44] <andypugh> At the moment the sign-up security is something like 3 recaptchas
[14:49:11] <jepler> cradek: yes, there's also e-mail confirmation
[14:49:12] <cradek> 3?
[14:49:18] <jepler> go through the sign-up process if you want to see it
[14:49:27] <cradek> seems like 3 would be about as effective as 1
[14:49:31] <cradek> oh hey, why not
[14:49:47] <andypugh> We only get a couple of spammers a month now, at one point we were getting 2000 a day.
[14:50:03] <cradek> wow
[14:50:13] <andypugh> It was a significant chore.
[14:50:23] <jepler> We welcome you to our online community and trust that together
[14:50:25] <cradek> yeah I bet
[14:50:27] <jepler> we will grow.
[14:51:07] <jepler> (account activation e-mail)
[14:52:43] <andypugh> I have done enough growing, and would prefer to shrink. Is that OK with the Online Community?
[14:54:27] <cradek> sm-mta[91748]: t9JJS85P091748: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<www-data@joomla>, relay=forum.linuxcnc.org [159.203.98.76] (may be forged), reject=553 5.1.8 <www-data@joomla>... Domain of sender address www-data@joomla does not exist
[14:54:34] <cradek> doh
[14:54:46] <jepler> derp derp
[14:54:47] <cradek> signup fail
[14:57:18] <jepler> that's the MAIL FROM ?
[14:58:41] <cradek> I'm not sure, but it seems likely
[15:00:17] <jepler> hm the forum post updates came from a more likely source
[15:00:45] <jepler> Return-path: <webmaster@linuxcnc.org>
[15:00:47] <cradek> yes, Authentication-Results: outpost.timeguy.com; sender-id=none header.from=webmaster@linuxcnc.org; spf=none smtp.mfrom=webmaster@linuxcnc.org
[15:01:02] <jepler> so argh there must be two configuration directives and I can't find the other one
[15:01:16] <cradek> sure, why have just one way to send email when you can have two
[15:03:04] <jepler> why have one way to configure things when you could have 97
[15:03:09] <jepler> my blood has been this close to boiling all day...
[15:05:28] <skunkworks> jepler, thanks for working on this!
[15:06:24] <cradek> yeah, no kidding
[15:11:06] <andypugh> I have never figured out why there are at least two user-management interfaces in Joomla.
[15:11:14] <andypugh> (Users and Cmmunity Builder)
[15:11:27] <jepler> because everything in the world is terrible
[15:11:31] <jepler> sorry, that's my frustration speaking
[15:12:01] <andypugh> https://xkcd.com/927/
[15:12:50] <cradek> yes there's a plugin architecture, so both the left hand and the right hand are welcome to create new kinds of user accounts
[15:13:19] <cradek> I understand the forum uses the community builder style of account
[15:13:28] <cradek> I don't know if anything uses the other style
[15:16:26] <cradek> I'd be happy if we used none of joomla but the forum, and we could do a separate (ideally git-backed) simple main website
[15:20:03] <andypugh> How about using a mailing list nstead of a forum? :-)
[15:20:14] <cradek> wellll
[15:26:23] <jepler> hmph about sign-up emails
[15:26:31] <jepler> email is on the terrible pile
[15:26:37] <jepler> not the excellent wonderful pile
[15:32:33] <andypugh> How big is the excellent wonderful pile?
[15:45:26] <jepler> ummmm
[15:45:28] <jepler> I can't find it
[15:45:30] <jepler> I even looked
[15:46:17] <andypugh> One good answer to the question I am about to ask is “because I already did all the work” but why use Joomla rather than something else?
[15:46:52] <jepler> andypugh: because I don't know any other feasible way to not delete all the forum posts
[15:47:39] <andypugh> You don’t fancy writing a custom conversion script between two undocumanted database structures?
[15:47:40] <cradek> second answer is it's hard to even guess what's better
[15:47:47] <jepler> nope
[15:48:06] <cradek> I tried to find that out (by looking at a wikipedia page) but koomena wasn't even on it
[15:52:54] <cradek> jepler: emails are working now
[16:23:28] <jepler> cradek: yay, thanks for verifying
[16:23:33] <cradek> sure
[16:31:18] <jepler> I posted to the forum
[16:31:46] <jepler> hopefully I have not bitten off something I can't chew
[16:32:32] <jepler> cradek: no idea about the editor choices, sorry
[16:37:00] * cradek shrugs
[16:39:47] <skunkworks> pcw_home:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149220
[16:40:45] <cradek> what
[16:58:25] <andypugh> I hope every single possible user sees that and realises what that means...
[17:03:13] <skunkworks> oh - and tormach is now in charge..
[17:03:15] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149222
[17:03:53] <skunkworks> I may have poked the bear again...
[17:04:28] <Tom_itx> funny
[17:04:46] <Tom_itx> is tormach your driving force?
[17:06:18] <andypugh> What makes them think that Tormach aren’t geeks too?
[17:06:47] <Tom_itx> it just makes them feel better to think that
[17:07:35] <jepler> andypugh: I read it and I don't know what it means
[17:07:53] <jepler> it means everyone has trouble saying "we aren't going to do <thing>, at least not right now"
[17:10:39] <andypugh> It seems to be saying “We won’t support a cheap solution for fear of upsetting our friends with expensive solutions”
[17:16:52] <jepler> but their API for motion control plugins is public, isn't it?
[17:19:33] <skunkworks> I think (atleast for m4) you have to sign a nda
[17:19:50] <skunkworks> at a minimum
[17:20:19] <jepler> ah
[17:20:27] <jepler> well then I take back everything I left unsaid
[17:22:41] <PCW> The NDA made me lose interest Mach4 pretty fast
[17:24:00] <jepler> it would do the same to me
[18:02:32] <skunkworks> my poke
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149216
[18:03:34] <skunkworks> someone had complained that there wasnt a good encoder threading solution for mach
[18:05:00] <skunkworks> (and that maybe there was a good reason for tormach to switch
[18:09:16] <PCW> I think thats a big one (mach lathe support just wasn't there)
[18:12:02] <PCW> Requiring a real time host is something of a disadvantage
[18:12:03] <PCW> requiring all hardware vendors to implement the tricky motion control bits (in secret of course)
[18:12:05] <PCW> seems like a disadvantage as well
[18:14:10] <PCW> Arghh: K1's pncconf problem
[18:14:11] <PCW> I just cant duplicate his problem
[18:16:49] <andypugh> PCW: I suspect that k1 isn’t doing what k1 thinks heis doing
[18:16:52] <cradek> heh brian wants to make a new private group so he can exclude people like sam
[18:17:32] <andypugh> Can we do that too :-)
[18:17:50] <cradek> nah, I like sam
[18:18:00] <PCW> :-)
[18:19:32] <PCW> andypugh: yeah, maybe he is not really updating linuxcnc/pncconf
[18:21:29] <PCW> i just used the wiki update instructions, updated to 2.7.? on my old 10.04 test box and pncconf (now) does the right things
[18:22:31] <PCW> (it was running 2.5.4)
[18:23:56] <Roguish> hey, who the heck is that guy calling a GEEK? I represent that fact. and am proud of it, damn it.
[18:25:41] <cradek> yeah, and obviously, all the best software was written by geeks
[18:26:06] <Roguish> and i'm not even a programmer.....
[19:31:56] <malcom2073_> cradek: Technically, all of the worst software as well
[19:42:02] <jepler> ok this is crazy -- a 28-bit R-2R DAC. look at all those SMD parts!
http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html
[19:47:10] <PCW> Dont expect surface mount resistors to be anything but nice strain gauges if you ask much more than about .1% from them
[19:49:06] <PCW> Learned this the hard way (use resistors with flexible leads if you want precision)
[20:05:52] <jepler> I just don't see how the result of any error budget tells you to build a 28-bit DAC
[20:06:43] <jepler> but if it's not the error budget but the audiophile's budget that tells you to do it...
[20:07:03] <PCW> Yep there's that
[20:42:28] <jepler> the RSS feed behaves differently if you're logged in vs logged out
[20:42:31] <jepler> http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/topics/posts?format=feed
[20:42:35] <jepler> that's weird
[20:42:56] <jepler> as does the html version
http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/topics/posts
[20:44:33] <jepler> supposedly fixed in 2012
https://github.com/Kunena/Kunena-Forum/issues/1027
[23:04:49] <cradek> jepler: I've never heard of being logged in for rss, and I'm sure I don't know how to do that with r2e
[23:09:48] <mozmck> can you set a parameter in the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE string? such as: RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE = #40 = 0.291
[23:10:29] <cradek> I don't know without trying
[23:10:47] <cradek> I know you can make #40 persistent by adding a #40 line in the var file
[23:11:07] <mozmck> hmm, yes, that might be a way to do what I need.
[23:11:26] <mozmck> I don't guess you can read an INI value in G-code?
[23:11:53] <cradek> don't think so
[23:12:12] <mozmck> I didn't either. I'll play with it then and see what I can do.
[23:18:27] <mozmck> putting it in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE appears to work
[23:18:34] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7-realtime-unload-race d523d9e 06linuxcnc 10scripts/realtime.in realtime script: wait for the last rtapi_app to die when stopping realtime * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d523d9e
[23:18:57] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: did i implement your idea adequately?