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[05:33:35] <jthornton> alex_joni, thank you
[06:05:31] <alex_joni> jthornton: np, hope all is ok?
[06:09:30] <jthornton> yep, and you?
[07:24:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03andy 05master 24dc2a2 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man9/lcd.9 10src/hal/components/lcd.c
[07:24:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> Fix a bug caused by misunderstanding do_div in the lcd.comp
[07:24:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> If no format length was specified then the formatting would break for any value with a zero in its representation.
[07:24:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> Signed-off-by: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[07:24:57] <KGB-linuxcnc> Fix some bugs in the lcd component
[07:25:00] <KGB-linuxcnc> Signed-off-by: Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[07:25:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03andy 05master 2ba536e 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/components/lcd.c * Un-break the sim builds (well, I can hope)
[07:25:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 6e8144a 06linuxcnc 10tests/build/ui/test.sh * test: don't clutter the test directory
[07:25:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master ddcfd17 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10html/.gitignore 10man/.gitignore 10man/man9/.gitignore 03src/.gitignore * docs: improve ignore patterns
[07:25:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master a9c32ba 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * epstopdf is no longer needed by the asciidoc toolchain
[07:25:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master f99c1ab 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(14 files in 6 dirs) * docs: Rename images to placate asciidoc
[07:26:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 766f2fb 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(5 files) * docs: Request ascii-ids
[07:26:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 929026d 06linuxcnc 10debian/control.in * docs: specify that we require texlive for each language
[07:26:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 8bb7acc 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(85 files in 8 dirs) * docs: don't use 'non-breaking space' character U+00a0
[07:26:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master fb2f490 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/Submakefile 10src/Makefile.inc.in 10src/configure.in * docs: Don't explicitly request a dblatex encoding on newer(?) asciidoc
[07:26:22] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 3b616b6 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/.gitignore 10src/hal/components/lcd.c * Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[07:26:24] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master fd3c181 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(53 files in 8 dirs) * docs: don't use 'non-breaking space' character U+00a0
[07:26:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master a420f21 06linuxcnc * Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[07:26:36] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 86b8036 06linuxcnc 10debian/control.in 10docs/src/Submakefile 10src/Makefile.inc.in 10src/configure.in * Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[07:26:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 6e8144a 06linuxcnc 10tests/build/ui/test.sh * test: don't clutter the test directory
[07:26:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch ddcfd17 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10html/.gitignore 10man/.gitignore 10man/man9/.gitignore 03src/.gitignore * docs: improve ignore patterns
[07:26:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 8bb7acc 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(85 files in 8 dirs) * docs: don't use 'non-breaking space' character U+00a0
[07:27:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch a9c32ba 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * epstopdf is no longer needed by the asciidoc toolchain
[07:27:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch f99c1ab 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(14 files in 6 dirs) * docs: Rename images to placate asciidoc
[07:27:15] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 766f2fb 06linuxcnc 10docs/ 10(5 files) * docs: Request ascii-ids
[07:27:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 929026d 06linuxcnc 10debian/control.in * docs: specify that we require texlive for each language
[07:27:28] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch fb2f490 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/Submakefile 10src/Makefile.inc.in 10src/configure.in * docs: Don't explicitly request a dblatex encoding on newer(?) asciidoc
[07:52:20] <skunkworks> kimK: how is it going?
[07:54:42] <alex_joni> jthornton: great ;)
[07:54:51] <alex_joni> a bit of lag right now .. catching up with work
[07:54:57] <alex_joni> after a couple weeks of travelling
[07:55:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: hey sam
[07:56:38] <skunkworks> Hi alex! how is the BBB -> microsoft windows going?
[08:11:42] <linuxcnc-build> build #1100 of package-sim-precise-source is complete: Failure [4failed making debian source package] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/package-sim-precise-source/builds/1100 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:11:43] <linuxcnc-build> build #1101 of package-rt-lucid-source is complete: Failure [4failed making debian source package] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/package-rt-lucid-source/builds/1101 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:12:46] <jepler> aw poo
[08:12:54] <linuxcnc-build> build #1100 of package-sim-lucid-source is complete: Failure [4failed making debian source package] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/package-sim-lucid-source/builds/1100 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:14:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master ed98070 06linuxcnc 10debian/control.in * Fix typo introduced at 86b80364
[08:15:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: don't get me started :D
[08:16:04] <skunkworks> heh
[08:16:14] <jepler> he keeps asking me questions as though I know the answers :-/
[08:16:37] <alex_joni> one can only hope :)
[08:16:38] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: forgot a comma, looks like?
[08:16:49] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: yeah,
[08:17:02] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: searching for missing commas?
[08:17:40] <seb_kuzminsky> if i an get through the day and lose nothing more than a comma, i'll consider it a success ;-)
[08:17:50] <seb_kuzminsky> brb, frying eggs!
[08:18:57] <skunkworks> Mmmmm eggs...
[08:19:20] <archivist> fried eggs chips and beans
[08:19:35] <skunkworks> we have found out with our ss pans - butter works the best for frying.. only thing that doesn't let the eggs stick
[08:20:11] <jepler> now I'm hungry
[08:20:12] <skunkworks> tried things like olive oil, coconut oil...
[08:20:15] <jepler> too bad all I have is leftover pancakes
[08:20:25] <skunkworks> Mmmmm pancakes...
[08:20:44] * skunkworks goes off to the vendo machines... :(
[08:21:01] <jepler> next time in wichita we'll have to find a spot on the shop floor for a couple of gas griddles. seb can fry eggs for everybody and I'll make pancakes.
[08:21:22] <jepler> if andypugh comes, he can bring the heinz baked beans
[08:22:16] <archivist> hmm I have a stock of heinz beans
[08:22:30] <archivist> beans on cheese on toast....
[08:23:28] <skunkworks> Stop it!
[08:23:34] <archivist> I dont think one is allowed to bring food in, you lot have to come to England :)
[08:25:16] <linuxcnc-build> build #1091 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-amd64/builds/1091 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:25:23] <jepler> There's a specialty store in my town where you can buy genuine imported british heinz baked beans
[08:25:35] <jepler> oh dear: In 2008, "Heinz Baked Beans" were renamed "Heinz Beanz", as the original title was "a bit of a mouthful to pronounce", according to the company.[6]
[08:25:42] <jepler> I had no idea
[08:26:14] <linuxcnc-build> build #1090 of deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-sim-binary-i386/builds/1090 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:26:24] <linuxcnc-build> build #1439 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/1439 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[08:26:47] <archivist> jepler, I had never noticed either, just checked a tin
[08:31:01] <alex_joni> eek.. beans for breakfast
[08:32:48] <linuxcnc-build> build #1093 of deb-hardy-rt-binary-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/deb-hardy-rt-binary-i386/builds/1093 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>, Andy Pugh <andy@bodgesoc.org>
[10:29:10] <cradek> I wish people would just NOT BUY ethercat machinery, and we could quit hearing about their stupid license
[11:35:46] <t12> whats their stupid license?
[11:36:16] <jepler> t12: "GPLv2 except you're not allowed to run or modify or distribute the software"
[11:36:32] <t12> ha
[11:36:37] <jepler> or, as they put it, "GPLv2 for source code only"
[11:36:45] <cradek> also you have to sign a license with us
[11:36:53] <cradek> don't worry, we won't charge you anything
[11:37:04] <t12> how does that involve linuxcnc?
[11:37:14] <cradek> people think they want to combine them
[11:37:26] <jepler> some people wanted to contribute hal drivers that link to encumbered EtherCAT Master software
[11:37:38] <jepler> we had to tell them "no" because of our reading of the EtherCAT Master license
[11:38:47] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: any more thoughts on the color of the new bike shed? (aka the name of the new epp api driver)
[11:38:53] <t12> oh by link
[11:38:55] <t12> like LD link
[11:39:13] <jepler> t12: right
[11:39:27] <t12> i see
[11:41:08] <t12> the SOEM people?
[11:41:52] <jepler> it is some german company that asserts patent rights on implementations of the EtherCAT standard
[11:42:27] <seb_kuzminsky> that behavior violates my understanding of "standard"
[11:42:28] <jepler> whatever implementation the HAL components were linking to warn prominently about this company's patent claims
[11:42:44] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: they say the patents are offered under RAND terms, but that's no good for GPL software.
[11:42:58] <t12> isnt it kind of hard to enforce on just packet generation
[11:43:11] <jepler> (well, actually, they mumbo jumbo but in a prominent place about the german company's IP claims)
[11:43:12] <t12> (if it was managable to not link directly to their libs)
[11:43:40] <jepler> hard to enforce is the wrong question
[11:44:08] <archivist> get patents invalidated
[11:44:14] <jepler> who is going to pay lawyers to defend linuxcnc.org?
[11:44:29] <jepler> I have no knowledge or opinion about the validity of the patents, but unfortunately for me I'm aware they exist
[11:44:36] <t12> ahh
[11:44:48] <jepler> linuxcnc.org doesn't want to gather patent lawsuits, it gets in the way of doing real work
[11:44:49] <t12> they could always publish it as 3rd party plugin
[11:44:59] <t12> and take the risk themselves
[11:45:18] <jepler> yes, if the authors of these HAL components have different conclusions about the legality or about their ability to field a legal defense they can sure decide to distribute it themselves
[11:45:34] <jepler> I have mentioned this in the mailing list thread about this
[11:45:35] <t12> right now they just want to merge it?
[11:45:54] <jepler> there is not enough knowledge about the fact it's entirely possible to build HAL components outside the main tree, I think
[11:46:14] <jepler> (plus it is easier for end-users when drivers are centralized, I admit)
[11:46:21] <t12> yeah
[11:46:25] <t12> packaging gloss can help with that though
[11:46:36] <t12> like if it can be reduced to install this deb package, add some line to config file
[11:46:59] <t12> (if its not already that way)
[11:47:33] <jepler> sure, if the authors want to go as far as publishing .deb binary packages on their own server, then keeping up to date is not too bad
[11:48:03] <jepler> you have to script: install GPG public key that is used to sign repository, add repository to sources.list.d, apt-get update, apt-get install
[11:48:23] <jepler> linuxcnc-install.sh is an example of one probably-suboptimal way to do this
[11:49:23] <jepler> anyway, for me it boils down to two things: risk-averseness for linuxcnc.org (don't want a C&D or a lawsuit) PLUS wanting to steer users away from encumbered technology
[11:49:47] <jepler> because this german company also claims that you can't make EtherCAT slave hardware without a license from them, and that one also costs $$$
[11:49:58] <t12> ya
[11:49:58] <jepler> well €€€
[11:50:12] <t12> do you ever get user requsts/forum queries/etc about interfacing to their stuff
[11:50:42] <jepler> I ignore the forum entirely and the users list mostly, but I get the impression that yes, some people have the hardware and want to use it
[11:52:39] <t12> need chinese release group
[11:53:31] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: why not just put the new APIs in the existing hal_parport.h?
[11:55:37] <jepler> should the multibyte routines say "le" to indicate they operate in little-endian fashion?
[11:55:43] <jepler> e.g., epp_write32le
[11:59:40] <jepler> I would prefer to see the new routines documented as the current ones are in hal_parport.3hal
[11:59:51] <jepler> + data = a + (b<<8) + (c<<16) + (d<<24);
[12:00:00] <jepler> it's more typical to use | here but why do I even bring it up?
[12:01:48] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: ^^ is that enough bikeshedding to make you (un)happy with any decision you might make?
[12:42:20] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: thanks for the feedback
[12:43:17] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont want it in a header file, because i want this hypothetical pru-epp use case to be easier to implement
[12:43:37] <seb_kuzminsky> ie, i dont want the epp api compiled into the anyio drivers, i want it runtime linked
[12:44:07] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe it could go in hal_parport.c, but then the user would get a bunch of SPP pins in hal that dont make sense
[12:45:18] <seb_kuzminsky> i like the suggestions for endian-ness indicators in the function names, and for adding documentation
[13:13:40] <seb_kuzminsky> hi andy
[13:15:28] <andypugh> Hi
[13:21:01] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: OK that makes sense
[13:28:52] <skunkworks> jepler, how is the reprap?
[13:31:14] <jepler> skunkworks: still haven't touched it
[13:31:36] <jepler> status: replacement electronics sitting in box, replacement extruder installed but electrical connections not completed
[13:32:08] <skunkworks> that's ok. :)
[13:32:11] <cradek> yes but how do you FEEL about it?
[13:32:30] <jepler> most evenings I am unmotivated
[13:33:00] <jepler> sometimes I think "I should go work on that, but I had a drink earlier and so if I go do anything I'll just fry more electronics"
[13:33:21] <jepler> I haven't yet determined why having a beer makes me think of going to work on it
[13:34:01] <skunkworks> I am sure you would fry things even if you didn't drink... ;)
[13:34:13] <jepler> I sure have
[13:34:19] <cradek> it seems quite fryable
[13:37:17] <andypugh> There is a well known lik between beer and frying things. Though generally it is food.
[13:37:32] <jepler> beer and fried food is a good combination
[13:37:58] <andypugh> A common cause of house fires, though.
[13:38:35] <jepler> oh, I don't fry my own food. have to go out for that.
[13:38:36] <andypugh> (Come home drunk, decide to fry something, put the chip pan on, forget....)
[13:38:47] <skunkworks> andypugh, your cad of the ball rotory optially flipped on me. Now I can only see it that way..
[13:39:07] <andypugh> How odd.
[13:39:32] <skunkworks> maybe I need a beer
[13:40:31] <jepler> today I feel like I'd just fall asleep halfway through one
[13:40:34] <skunkworks> oh - now it is back..
[13:41:01] <skunkworks> (grooves instead of domes)
[13:49:45] <jepler> well crumble
[13:51:17] <jepler> it appears I busted all the non-ASCII characters in the documentation with my recent commits
[13:52:45] <andypugh> That's probably a bad thing.
[13:55:15] <jepler> qft
[14:02:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch b98c264 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man3/rtapi_module_param.3rtapi * document the interpretation of MODULE_LICENSE strings
[14:02:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 340e04a 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/hal/comp.txt * Fix MODULE_LICENSE strings, refer to our documentation of their interpretation
[14:02:56] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05v2.5_branch 5a5b020 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * docs: fix latex.encoding (utf-8 is accepted but doesn't work like utf8!)
[14:04:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master b98c264 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man3/rtapi_module_param.3rtapi * document the interpretation of MODULE_LICENSE strings
[14:04:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 340e04a 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/hal/comp.txt * Fix MODULE_LICENSE strings, refer to our documentation of their interpretation
[14:04:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 5a5b020 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * docs: fix latex.encoding (utf-8 is accepted but doesn't work like utf8!)
[14:04:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jepler 05master 2c49cea 06linuxcnc 10src/configure.in * Merge remote branch 'origin/v2.5_branch'
[14:23:34] <seb_kuzminsky> all jepler's work on the docs makes me motivated to fix the docs on www.linuxcnc.org
[14:23:53] <seb_kuzminsky> it's pretty close, they're all auto-built and uploaded to
http://www.linuxcnc.org/stage-docs/
[14:24:12] <seb_kuzminsky> i just need to move the old docs to their proper place and fix the index.html file, i think
[14:30:00] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: I know I owe you a round tuit on that, particularly since I brought it up recently
[14:31:00] <jepler> last I recalled I wanted to be sure that URLs like www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/ would continue to work after the move; it looks like right now that wouldn't be the case
[14:31:20] <jepler> that's the only thing I remember troubling me
[14:33:59] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah i think that's it
[14:34:09] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll ping you when i un-hork it
[14:34:14] <jepler> ok
[14:59:31] <seb_kuzminsky> rtai 4.0-test1 was just released
[14:59:53] <seb_kuzminsky> http://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2013-October/026045.html
[15:00:09] <seb_kuzminsky> CaptHindsight, memleak, do you have any info on this for us?
[15:54:38] <jepler> phew, it was the utf8 vs utf-8 typo that broke the buildbot docs
[15:54:42] <jepler> so now I think all is well
[15:54:44] <jepler> for real you guys
[15:56:49] <jepler> I ordered a BBB and when I get it I intend to look into why axis has such bad performance when displayed over the network. more news if anything ever comes of it...
[15:57:46] <kwallace2> Cool.
[16:36:25] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm glad you found it! what a difference a - can make
[16:36:45] <seb_kuzminsky> annoying that the tool didn't complain loudly (loudly enough for us to hear)
[17:08:46] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: it might have been there in the warnings, who knows
[17:32:59] <CaptHindsight> seb_kuzminsky: nope, last we checked 64bit still wasn't working and 32b was still behind, Shahbaz was just looking at fixing it over the past few days