#garfield Logs
Apr 19 2025
#garfield Calendar
12:02 AM rifraf: sup away brother, did you pick up mom today?
12:27 AM rue_mohr: she got a ride with my uncle
12:27 AM rue_mohr: everything else got done
12:27 AM rue_mohr: but the wifi link
12:27 AM rue_mohr: I'm short on hardware to test code properly
12:28 AM rue_mohr: I can set some up tommorow
12:28 AM rue_mohr: I need another esp8266 to usb serial adapter
03:07 AM rifraf: so did it work rue?
05:54 AM Tom_L: 0.2 worked here
05:55 AM Tom_L: the timer starts right away when you return from page 2 before pressing start
05:56 AM Tom_L: and the save settings button could come up to match the location of the ones on Page1
05:56 AM Tom_L: page 1 buttons look good now
09:49 AM rue_mohr: rifraf, takes me longer than that to extract the battery, find a cell charger, connect it up and get it charged
09:49 AM Tom_L: get a 'smart' charger :D
09:51 AM rue_mohr: that will take longer
09:52 AM Tom_L: did you try his new apk?
09:52 AM rue_mohr: yea, it doen'st work on the phone I have
09:53 AM Tom_L: old android?
09:53 AM Tom_L: it loaded ok here
09:53 AM Tom_L: check the android version on it
09:53 AM Tom_L: in settings
09:53 AM rue_mohr: I got a bunch of pretty new looking phones from a store doing a cleanout once, but they wont start up anymore, I was planning on using them as robot remotes
09:54 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, it doesn't say "andoird version"
09:54 AM Tom_L: it does
09:54 AM rue_mohr: it gives a lot of other version numbers
09:54 AM rue_mohr: no, actually it doesn't
09:54 AM rue_mohr: I'll try one of the newer ones :]
09:54 AM Tom_L: settings -> about phone -> software version
09:56 AM rue_mohr: oug
09:59 AM rue_mohr: http://media.ruemohr.org/images/p1340243.jpg read it for me, where does it say android version?
10:03 AM Tom_L: right below that :)
10:03 AM Tom_L: does LG use android os?
10:04 AM rifraf: looks way too old for anything
10:04 AM rue_mohr: when it starts up is says "Android"
10:04 AM Tom_L: past your bedtime sir
10:04 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, yea, and there is no 'down'
10:05 AM rifraf: is not supported by me
10:05 AM Tom_L: it loaded on mine and i gave you a fixit list
10:06 AM rifraf: yep, those are known bugs thanks, might fix today, but making some more help screens
10:07 AM Tom_L: oh, one more bug....
10:07 AM Tom_L: my top doesn't spin for 15 min
10:07 AM rifraf: practice more, and refine it, that took me many months
10:08 AM rifraf: got a better thing to spin it on yet?
10:08 AM Tom_L: nope
10:08 AM rifraf: did you try spice jar lid or similar?
10:10 AM Tom_L: no but i did measure the top in mm for input
10:11 AM rue_mohr: I'm going to do porridge for breakfast today
10:12 AM Tom_L: don't burn it
10:13 AM rue_mohr: usually just add boiling water
10:13 AM Tom_L: premade packs?
10:13 AM rue_mohr: yep
10:14 AM Tom_L: cinamon raisin
10:14 AM rue_mohr: maple and brown sugar
10:14 AM Tom_L: err yeah that's the one
10:15 AM rue_mohr: I didn't come up with a plan today...
10:15 AM rue_mohr: that worked so well yesterday
10:15 AM rue_mohr: I need an adapter for the wifi module, so I can do that
10:15 AM Tom_L: follow the butterfly
11:20 AM rue_mohr: hmm, I need a serial link tester
11:21 AM rue_mohr: want to do outside stuff today tho, its a nice day
11:29 AM Tom_L: what sort of tester?
11:29 AM rifraf: serial link
11:30 AM rue_mohr: I'd made a serial lcd, and I think I was seeing dropped characters, but as it turned out, the screen was dropping some
11:30 AM Tom_L: i had one that logged a serial port and sent it on it's way out another port undisturbed
11:31 AM rue_mohr: yea, I'll be fine if I have another esp8266 usb adatper
11:32 AM Tom_L: http://paste.debian.net/1370341/
11:32 AM Tom_L: maybe that was it.. don't remember now
11:32 AM Tom_L: kinda looks like it
11:33 AM Tom_L: i wonder if i'm to the point i've forgotten more than i remember
11:34 AM rue_mohr: :]
11:34 AM rue_mohr: interesting
11:35 AM Tom_L: i still use my 'reboot.com'
11:35 AM rue_mohr: its funny how its 90% assembler
11:35 AM Tom_L: main()
11:35 AM Tom_L: {
11:35 AM Tom_L: char far (*jump)() = 0xFFFF0000L;
11:35 AM Tom_L:
11:35 AM Tom_L: (*jump)();
11:35 AM Tom_L: }
11:36 AM Tom_L: compile and run that in dos
11:36 AM rue_mohr: heh
11:36 AM Tom_L: or possibly even linux
11:37 AM rue_mohr: linux might throw a protection fault
11:37 AM Tom_L: maybe
11:37 AM rue_mohr: dos woudln't :]
11:37 AM rue_mohr: I wonder if x86 has a future
11:37 AM rue_mohr: its sure messed up now
11:38 AM rue_mohr: I was going to put my bets on arm, but I think the tide has turned towards risc
11:38 AM Tom_L: reboot:
11:38 AM Tom_L: assume ds:rom_bios_data
11:38 AM Tom_L: mov bx,rom_bios_data
11:38 AM Tom_L: mov ds,bx
11:38 AM Tom_L: mov ax,0FFFFH
11:38 AM Tom_L: mov reset,ax
11:38 AM Tom_L: jmp BOOT
11:38 AM Tom_L: code_seg ends
11:38 AM Tom_L: end
11:38 AM Tom_L: same thing in asm wihout the wrappers
11:39 AM Tom_L: com files were simple
11:40 AM rue_mohr: yup, liked .com
11:40 AM Tom_L: no far calls though iirc
11:40 AM rue_mohr: I remember when the first trojans were sent out as .com attachments in the guise of web links
11:40 AM Tom_L: although that one has a far call
11:40 AM rue_mohr: expected that one
11:41 AM rue_mohr: dos needed to be switched into extended mode, and there was no switching back
11:41 AM rue_mohr: silly addressing
11:41 AM Tom_L: you'll never need more than 64k memory
11:41 AM rue_mohr: heh
11:42 AM rue_mohr: A20
11:42 AM rue_mohr: I still want to make a machine level converter
11:43 AM rue_mohr: that takes, say 6502 code and converts it to z80
11:43 AM Tom_L: wonder what anagram.c does
11:43 AM rue_mohr: anagrams
11:43 AM Tom_L: scrambles all possibilities of a word?
11:43 AM rue_mohr: its a nice day, I need to get out
11:44 AM Tom_L: it's chilly here, i don't
11:44 AM rue_mohr: a bit here, will warm up in about 30 mins
11:45 AM rue_mohr: the gutters are full
11:45 AM rue_mohr: 100% compost
11:45 AM rue_mohr: even a few things growing in there
11:45 AM Tom_L: cleaned mine out in the fall
11:45 AM Tom_L: i'm sure they're full again
11:45 AM rue_mohr: yep, I should have put mesh over 'em
11:46 AM rue_mohr: did you do much BASIC?
11:46 AM Tom_L: not really
11:46 AM Tom_L: i was told it was a bad influence on new programmers
11:46 AM Tom_L: a little maybe
11:50 AM rue_mohr: org 100h
11:50 AM rue_mohr: start:
11:50 AM rue_mohr: lea dx, text
11:50 AM rue_mohr: mov ah, 9
11:50 AM rue_mohr: int 21h
11:50 AM rue_mohr: ret
11:50 AM rue_mohr: text db 'Hello World$'
11:50 AM rue_mohr: hello world in 20 bytes
11:50 AM rue_mohr: my buddy said asm was obsolete and that hello world in 20 bytes could not be done
11:50 AM Tom_L: yeah, the org 100 meant a com file iirc
11:51 AM rue_mohr: 1998
11:51 AM Tom_L: still have ms c5 & c6 installed somewhere
11:52 AM Tom_L: not sure about the books if i kept them or not
11:52 AM rue_mohr: I had a copy of borland
11:52 AM Tom_L: so did i
11:52 AM Tom_L: c & pascal
11:52 AM rue_mohr: the pascal compiled nicely, its sort of too bad it didn't catch on
11:53 AM Tom_L: the clipper i used had pascal like hooks to c & asm
11:53 AM rue_mohr: warms equ $FF7C
11:53 AM Tom_L: if i dug hard enough i might find them
11:53 AM rue_mohr: ;]
11:53 AM rue_mohr: the other assembler worlds
11:56 AM rue_mohr: oof I was doing pwm with two counters
11:57 AM Tom_L: i used asm in clipper to test for printer presence etc
11:58 AM rue_mohr: I'm looking at source files, I'm not sure what I was up to
11:58 AM Tom_L: and numlock key
11:59 AM rue_mohr: I see lines, circles, and joysticks
12:00 PM rue_mohr: org 100h
12:00 PM rue_mohr: start:
12:00 PM rue_mohr: int 19h
12:00 PM rue_mohr: when you cant do the long jump
12:00 PM Tom_L: #include "nandef.h"
12:00 PM Tom_L: #include "extend.h"
12:00 PM Tom_L: CLIPPER d_open()
12:00 PM Tom_L: {
12:00 PM Tom_L: _asm
12:00 PM Tom_L: {
12:00 PM Tom_L: MOV DX, 0278h ;PORT
12:01 PM Tom_L: MOV AL,0FFH ;;OPEN variable doesn't work must be hardcoded
12:01 PM Tom_L: OUT DX,AL
12:01 PM Tom_L: }
12:01 PM Tom_L: }
12:01 PM Tom_L: open a cash drawer for a sales app i did
12:01 PM rue_mohr: :]
12:01 PM Tom_L: that's how you got to asm from clipper
12:02 PM rue_mohr: when I was doing the repair shop I dont think I ever hooked up the striker
12:02 PM rue_mohr: I think I always just tripped it with my finger
12:02 PM Tom_L: 1989
12:02 PM rue_mohr: yea, about 2000 for me
12:03 PM rue_mohr: I wish I could have been playing with this stuff so much earlier
12:03 PM rue_mohr: that said
12:03 PM rue_mohr: not sure I wouldn't be in the same boat anyhow
12:03 PM Tom_L: http://paste.debian.net/1370345/
12:03 PM rue_mohr: with all the disposable tech going around its impossible to make any real progress on anything
12:04 PM Tom_L: clipper was a compiled program so you'd compile that right into the exe
12:05 PM rue_mohr: mm
12:06 PM rue_mohr: I think when you compiled a basic into an exe, it just make a copy of basic with the program embedded into it
12:06 PM rue_mohr: gonna go wander around the yard
12:06 PM Tom_L: clipper was nice because it did auto memory swapping
12:07 PM Tom_L: you could set a work space iirc
12:22 PM rue_shop4: :]
12:37 PM aandrew: man I keep forgetting that I need to play with that embedded dynamic loader stuff
12:38 PM aandrew: https://github.com/bogdanm/udynlink
01:28 PM rue_shop4: so, I bought some wireless serial things that seemed to be dropping characters, I wonder if that was the screen I was using again
01:30 PM rue_shop4: I'v also has issues with some of the usb adapters
01:30 PM rue_shop4: ok
01:30 PM rue_shop4: serial test program it is
01:32 PM aandrew: it always frustrates me to no end when my tools are the source of my issues rather than the thing I'm trying to do
01:40 PM rue_mohr: well, I have a lot of things that could be the source of the issues I'm seeing
01:43 PM rue_mohr: shop server raid drives have 18k hrs, still young
01:55 PM rue_mohr: - driveway chime
01:55 PM rue_mohr: - dig basement
01:55 PM rue_mohr: - find/charge cell phone battery
02:23 PM rue_mohr: and ... its sunny and I'm coding
02:23 PM rue_mohr: *sigh*
02:24 PM rue_mohr: I cant think of any welding to do
02:31 PM rue_mohr: OOooo a really big tree fell over next door
02:31 PM rue_mohr: (across the road in the camp)
02:31 PM rue_mohr: er park
02:31 PM Tom_L: firewood fer you
02:32 PM rue_mohr: haha no, private property
02:32 PM rue_mohr: the power is on and the road is open, so its good with me
02:32 PM Tom_L: they'll have to get somebody to move it...
02:34 PM Tom_L: huh, https://github.com/Stutchbury/Manualmatic-Pendant
02:35 PM rue_mohr: ooo strange, I like mine
02:35 PM rue_mohr: 0 lag
02:36 PM rue_mohr: the tree fell within their land, its fine
02:36 PM rue_mohr: http://media.ruemohr.org/images/p1340244.jpg
02:36 PM rue_mohr: somewhere around there
02:37 PM Tom_L: did you ever get your spring wire?
02:37 PM rue_mohr: ugh, no, I should work on that tuesday
02:59 PM rue_shop4: ok, nice, I have a comm check program!
03:00 PM Tom_L: written in what?
03:00 PM Tom_L: asm?
03:00 PM rue_shop4: C
03:00 PM Tom_L: what's it do?
03:01 PM rue_shop4: sends a count to one port and checks to make sure the bytes read on the other port are consecutive
03:01 PM rue_shop4: but
03:01 PM rue_shop4: I dont think the baud setting is working
03:01 PM Tom_L: check mine
03:01 PM rue_shop4: 300 baud is comming back just as fast as 115200
03:02 PM Tom_L: it used dos function calls though iirc
03:02 PM rue_shop4: yep, linux
03:02 PM rue_shop4: and serial ports are a mess under linux
03:02 PM Tom_L: how do they do stuff like that now?
03:02 PM rue_shop4: tho, these ports are usb anyhow
03:02 PM rue_shop4: I wrote a library :/
03:02 PM rue_shop4: its, ugly
03:03 PM rue_shop4: oh hahah, I dont check if the set baud actualy worked
03:03 PM Tom_L: do you treat those devices as files?
03:03 PM Tom_L: ie open() etc
03:03 PM rue_shop4: yes
03:04 PM rue_shop4: but to do things like set the serial rate you have to use ioctl
03:04 PM rue_shop4: which is badly documented
03:04 PM Tom_L: https://blog.mbedded.ninja/programming/operating-systems/linux/linux-serial-ports-using-c-cpp/
03:04 PM Tom_L: haha everything is a file....
03:05 PM Tom_L: looks like that explains all the settings
03:05 PM Tom_L: although that may be c++
03:07 PM Tom_L: cfsetispeed
03:07 PM Tom_L: https://linux.die.net/man/3/cfsetispeed
03:10 PM rue_shop4: check it out later, but
03:10 PM rue_shop4: something really isn't right
03:11 PM rue_shop4: an 8 bit count only has 6 bit changing on scope
03:11 PM Tom_L: maybe you don't have parity or bits set right
03:13 PM Tom_L: seems that stuff is stored in a structure
03:13 PM Tom_L: https://www.hce-engineering.it/blog/setting-custom-baud-rate-on-serial-port/
03:15 PM rue_shop4: sorry if I seem a bit cold, but MOST of the documentation doesn't work and I spend 10 hours if I start messing with the code
03:15 PM rue_shop4: I have 108us
03:15 PM Tom_L: i've never tried it on linux
03:16 PM rue_shop4: so about 9600 baud
03:16 PM rue_shop4: yea, its a mess
03:16 PM rue_shop4: the library I have now is about 28 hours work
03:16 PM Tom_L: i'm sure it's doable
03:16 PM rue_shop4: have it on the scope, going to try some rates, but there are other issues
03:16 PM rue_shop4: like its not saturating the serial port
03:17 PM rue_shop4: oh, I found the baud issue
03:17 PM rue_shop4: if (SerOpen(&TX, argv[2], 9600) != OK) {
03:17 PM rue_shop4: fprintf(stderr, "Failed to open TX device: %s\n", argv[2]);
03:17 PM rue_shop4: return 1;
03:17 PM rue_shop4: }
03:17 PM rue_shop4: 9600 should be "baud"
03:18 PM rue_shop4: thats better
03:22 PM rue_shop4: but, why doesn't it keep the serial port filled
03:22 PM rue_shop4: I might need to check the tx buffer
03:22 PM rue_shop4: which I'v never done yet
03:22 PM rue_shop4: I assume a GHz machine can keep a 9600 baud port maxxed out, but
03:23 PM rue_shop4: I wonder if it will LET me overflow the buffer
03:24 PM Tom_L: gawd, i forgot all about all those 'AT' commands
03:25 PM Tom_L: was that for tty? i forget
03:25 PM Tom_L: or modem AT commands....
03:25 PM Tom_L: yeah maybe that
03:28 PM rue_shop4: ok
03:28 PM rue_shop4: ok I have a working program
03:28 PM rue_shop4: and these two usb adapters ar ok
03:28 PM rue_shop4: cat is calling me, says I need to lay in the sun with him
03:29 PM Tom_L: haha
03:29 PM Tom_L: Software by rue_mohr to read the product code of an eeprom
03:29 PM rue_shop4: meow? meow! meow!.... meow?
03:29 PM Tom_L: looking over my old c files
03:29 PM rue_shop4: product code?
03:29 PM rue_shop4: what device?
03:29 PM Tom_L: if were lucky this will later be abel to take hex files and flash them on there.
03:30 PM rue_shop4: oh the eeprom model
03:30 PM Tom_L: 2008
03:30 PM rue_shop4: *blink*
03:30 PM rue_shop4: not sure what I was up to in 2008
03:31 PM rue_shop4: ok, break, when I get back I'll hook up some of the wireless serial things and see if they really are dropping data
03:53 PM rue_shop4: ok
03:53 PM rue_shop4: back at it for a bit
03:53 PM rue_shop4: these wireless serial things are JDY-40
03:54 PM rue_shop4: (their about $1ea)
03:54 PM rue_shop4: 3.3V
03:54 PM rue_shop4: ok
04:18 PM rue_shop4: huh, their not talking to me
04:31 PM rue_shop4: why does NOTHING radio EVER work for me damnit
04:31 PM rue_shop4: EVER
04:33 PM rue_shop4: ugh
04:33 PM rue_shop4: transparent serial link is working, but the AT interface wont answer
04:34 PM rue_shop4: that is even more stupid
04:34 PM rue_shop4: huh, no data drops
04:36 PM rue_shop4: well
04:36 PM rue_shop4: uh
04:44 PM rue_shop4: aha
04:44 PM rue_shop4: FFFING minicom
04:44 PM rue_shop4: it needs lines ended with \r\n
04:51 PM rue_shop4: oh it'll do \r
04:51 PM rue_shop4: which is what minicom should be sending, but its not
04:52 PM rue_shop4: ok, I have a 9600 baud wireless link, no esp8266 involved
04:57 PM rue_shop4: ok, I need some food
04:57 PM rue_shop4: then I'll make up two 3.3V regulator boards and try for wireless robot serial control
06:20 PM Tom_L: rifraf, any updates?
06:25 PM rifraf: yeah plenty, but with every update is a few steps back also
06:26 PM Tom_L: that's called developement
07:18 PM rifraf: if you want to see latest can upload, timer still starts after going to settings
07:18 PM rifraf: but alot smoother, graphs, no settings need touching, but added some info screens
07:19 PM rifraf: have had the sweetest graphs ever today
07:23 PM rifraf: press reset, get top spinning then press start, is worth waiting a second or 2 after spinning for it to settle before starting
07:23 PM rifraf: auto sizing graphs mean the data is displaying much more dynamically
07:44 PM Tom_L: cool, sounds like you've been busy
07:45 PM rifraf: as with all project takes over my life, was up at 2am
07:45 PM rifraf: wanna learn some stuff?
07:55 PM rifraf: Tom_L https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot3.jpg
07:55 PM rifraf: such sweet graphs, https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot4.jpg
07:57 PM Tom_L: nice
07:57 PM Tom_L: seems the data fits better in the circle as well
07:58 PM rifraf: yeah, good for a clear lens
07:58 PM rifraf: but will be different on your phone :)
07:58 PM Tom_L: same link?
07:58 PM rifraf: no new one
07:59 PM rifraf: because the graphs are so worthy now want to give as much screen space to them as possible
07:59 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/vibesensing0.3.apk
08:00 PM rifraf: check out the info screens and see if it makes any sense
08:00 PM rifraf: thats has taken lots of time, and the graohs should be sweeter, thats the main thing
08:00 PM rifraf: so spin away sir
08:01 PM rifraf: polprog did not get any feedback from you yet? it worked ok?
08:02 PM Tom_L: buttons are under the bottom bar again
08:02 PM rifraf: tom, the setting are still a WIP
08:02 PM rifraf: ok, thats your fonts, i will make graph smaller
08:03 PM rifraf: i need more testers to see if the fonts thing is your phone or most
08:07 PM Tom_L: i have 2 phones
08:08 PM Tom_L: S25 S21
08:09 PM rifraf: cool, did you learn anything new from the info screens?
08:10 PM Tom_L: haven't had a chance to look
08:10 PM rifraf: are both your phones set to old person mode?
08:10 PM Tom_L: the S21 is way worse as far as screen size
08:10 PM Tom_L: one sec
08:10 PM rifraf: i cannot see but still hate when a word take up the entire screen, thats what glasses are for
08:11 PM rifraf: also tried to make pages layouts more consistant thanks to yuor input
08:12 PM rifraf: so they look like the same app
08:12 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_screen1.jpg
08:13 PM rifraf: yeah bugger, ok will find and replace file so you can use at least, 2 min
08:13 PM Tom_L: one more...
08:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S25_Screen1.jpg
08:14 PM Tom_L: S25
08:15 PM Tom_L: wonder why the top is trimmed on the sides and the center isn't
08:18 PM rifraf: ok try download again please
08:19 PM Tom_L: i think your helps are good
08:19 PM Tom_L: same link?
08:19 PM rifraf: yep
08:20 PM Tom_L: i'll try the s21 since it was the worst
08:21 PM rifraf: ok, and try spin something on the spice jar lid directly on the phone, most important once you can click the buttons
08:21 PM rifraf: tell me if yuo like you graphing
08:21 PM rifraf: new*
08:22 PM Tom_L: screen is much better but still clipped on the top a bit
08:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_Screen2.jpg
08:23 PM rifraf: yep thats great fori your phne, no more changes, see how it works
08:24 PM rifraf: do you think i explain too much of the magic of how this works? not that it works for you yet
08:25 PM rifraf: or it makes you want to know more?
08:25 PM Tom_L: i didn't read it all but looks informative for sure
08:25 PM rifraf: you may need to read a few times, is a few concepts in there
08:26 PM rifraf: but you saw more than 1 page? and the settings page is more same feel?
08:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test1.jpg
08:27 PM Tom_L: phone wasn't level but top was on the screen
08:27 PM rifraf: nope thats a nothing result
08:28 PM rifraf: do you see this curve in relation to time and rpm? https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot3.jpg
08:28 PM rifraf: thats what we are after
08:29 PM Tom_L: i get what's going on but can't achieve it with what i have
08:29 PM rifraf: in a perfect setup, which is me sitting here drunk with a bit of gel under phone, or foam, works the same, but spinning lense sits on phones facte
08:36 PM rifraf: fixed up the cropping of text at top, but we need to get your spinning arena setup better, did you look around in your travels to see what the wife or kitchen cupboard had?
08:38 PM rifraf: tom how do the info pages look? the 4 buttons at top fit ok on your screen?
08:40 PM Tom_L: help screens are a perfect fit
08:40 PM Tom_L: on the S21
08:40 PM Tom_L: they are inside the bounding box
08:45 PM rifraf: nice
08:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test2.jpg
08:47 PM rifraf: do you think a tip was spinning consistantly at about 20 times a second?
08:47 PM rifraf: if so looks good
08:48 PM Tom_L: probably
08:49 PM Tom_L: there was a divot in the glass bottom that kept fucking it up
08:50 PM rifraf: i just got a perfect 7.5 min graph, i can only detect a 1 hz change with these methods, and yuo can see the 1 hz drop perfectly
08:51 PM rifraf: from 1800 rpm ( 30 hz) to 600 rpm (10 hz)
08:51 PM Tom_L: tried a different cup with worse results
08:52 PM rifraf: time to change again then
08:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test3.jpg
08:54 PM Tom_L: is the decay the slowing down of the rpm?
08:54 PM Tom_L: percent?
08:54 PM rifraf: yep, press start after that top is spinning already, to lose that peak at the start
08:55 PM Tom_L: i have been
08:55 PM Tom_L: the cup doesn't fit so well on the phone
08:55 PM rifraf: press more gently then
08:56 PM rifraf: Tom_L look closely at this graph and the plotted points, it is perfection from this setup, https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot5.jpg, am so happy
08:57 PM Tom_L: looks good
08:57 PM Tom_L: you have a better top and a better setup
08:59 PM rifraf: i very basic setup, apart from a lenses, but you have many things to use better than that huge mirror
09:00 PM Tom_L: i'm not using the mirror now
09:01 PM Tom_L: where do you get your lens?
09:01 PM Tom_L: and what diameter?
09:01 PM Tom_L: i may order one
09:02 PM rifraf: lol, you can buy from the link n the app
09:02 PM rue_shop4: huh, all my pdf's are only 5G
09:03 PM rifraf: or search ali for a 50mm convex lense, you can 3d print the surround to help start the spin
09:03 PM rifraf: rue_mohr what do you think of this? https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot5.jpg
09:05 PM Tom_L: out of stock!!!!
09:05 PM Tom_L: wtf dude
09:06 PM rifraf: i bought them all :P
09:06 PM rifraf: any size will work tom that will sit on yur phone
09:07 PM Tom_L: 3" too big?
09:07 PM rifraf: latger is easier to spin on, but you still need a removable surround so you can do power spins
09:07 PM rifraf: nope
09:08 PM rifraf: 3" is great zize, and 3d print an suounding to suit, you remove after the spin has started
09:08 PM Tom_L: if i had a printer
09:08 PM rifraf: not too much bigger or there will be too much mass again i think they may dampen vibes
09:09 PM Tom_L: i'll find one here
09:09 PM rifraf: i can make you one if needed
09:09 PM rifraf: and i have the 50mm lenses
09:10 PM rifraf: seriously though, you have bottles and stuff in the recycling bin that could be used
09:11 PM Tom_L: not much of anything around here
09:12 PM rifraf: don't believe it
09:12 PM Tom_L: i didn't ask you to
09:12 PM Tom_L: are yours convex on 2 sides?
09:12 PM Tom_L: seems to be more of those
09:13 PM rifraf: yes
09:13 PM Tom_L: what focal length?
09:13 PM rifraf: that way you have a spare side to spin on for special occasions
09:13 PM Tom_L: 150 200... all sorts to choose from
09:13 PM rifraf: bigger better
09:14 PM Tom_L: 200
09:14 PM rifraf: means less curvature
09:14 PM rifraf: bigger focus radius on the glass grinding
09:15 PM Tom_L: so 300 is better than 150
09:15 PM rifraf: yes
09:15 PM rifraf: the less of a dish, the less friction
09:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Eisco-Piece-Premium-Optical-Diameter/dp/B00BIKGMZ8?crid=9WAUJHVE6VGP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7QJcWZarTkyZAEoddX49eRq-h8cgJKPmAX4spY4JV5nVno_O_sXVzOjFzBUP7MVcj1o_h839Dh0H0V10d_CyALzY9HjcFph1KLpUAXcqjjKodz1LtuI4TEIX5_LvxxVKBaMM2IjenftHwyqpOUreeoLf5yoviwj0ZWLW9kBn_opZ7sbekXvOOyEbr-ASVuuKZ2QedXZJO_QKqKjbooh5uHl0XFe4yL0YSm5aSMjQqjI.wdqaYRTz26evHo2FuGGfewZ4UCzFeb-M3dB14jFB4Lk&dib_tag=se&keywords=2%22+convex+lense&qid=1745114509&sp
09:15 PM Tom_L: refix=2+convex+lense%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3
09:16 PM rifraf: so a flat surcafe is ideal, but hard to stay in the center of
09:16 PM Tom_L: shttps://www.amazon.com/Eisco-Piece-Premium-Optical-Diameter/dp/B00BIKGMZ8
09:16 PM rifraf: understand?
09:16 PM Tom_L: 3 good ones there the others are concave
09:16 PM Tom_L: yes, the flatter the better
09:16 PM rifraf: concave not a good idea
09:16 PM Tom_L: but needs some curve
09:16 PM Tom_L: i just didn't know which was more or less curve
09:17 PM rifraf: bigger number less curve
09:17 PM rifraf: you need concave :*
09:18 PM rifraf: lol wat am i smoking
09:18 PM rifraf: sorry was mixed up a little, or alot there
09:18 PM Tom_L: A 300mm focal length lens generally has more curve than a 100mm lens.
09:18 PM Tom_L: sounds opposite of what you said
09:18 PM rifraf: hrm
09:18 PM rifraf: indeed it does
09:19 PM rifraf: that sounds so odd to me\
09:19 PM Tom_L: seems i couldn't go wrong with the 3 pack
09:19 PM rifraf: anyways, you want lass curvature
09:20 PM rifraf: hrm, a greater focal length should mean less curvature? https://www.cbakken.net/obookshelf/ccfocal.html#:~:text=DEFINITION%201%3A,focal%20length%20of%20the%20lens.
09:20 PM rifraf: maybe i am not seeing it right
09:22 PM rifraf: tom toses lens seems to have crazy price, no buy, tell them they are dreaming
09:23 PM rifraf: i can sell you for $15 delivered
09:23 PM Tom_L: those are roughly the same price with 6
09:23 PM Tom_L: 3 i can use, 3 are convex
09:23 PM rifraf: ah ok 6 off, but do you need that many
09:24 PM Tom_L: not unless i break one
09:24 PM rifraf: you should be able to get one for $5
09:24 PM Tom_L: and they'll be here monday
09:24 PM rifraf: on ali
09:24 PM rifraf: ok then
09:24 PM Tom_L: can you deliver by monday?
09:24 PM rifraf: time is money, i understand
09:24 PM rifraf: nope
09:24 PM rifraf: mine is 12 days at least
09:24 PM Tom_L: i certainly don't need any
09:25 PM Tom_L: i know
09:25 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll cnc a ring for it
09:25 PM Tom_L: who knows
09:25 PM rifraf: while you wait you can machine a few more tops for testing
09:25 PM Tom_L: no
09:25 PM Tom_L: my kid did that for me at the vo'tech
09:25 PM Tom_L: my lathe is shit
09:26 PM rifraf: a good tradesman...
09:27 PM rifraf: i can use a brass fitting from a tap repair kit and make it spin for 5 minutes with a bit of a cleanup on the tip on a battery drill
09:28 PM Tom_L: we keep saying convex. concave is what i want
09:29 PM rifraf: indeed, sorry about that
09:29 PM rifraf: cave as in depression in glass
09:30 PM aandrew: wow might have found the same model SFF PC that I fried for $40. i3 not i7, 8G not 16G but I have those parts from mine, presumably good
09:30 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/YOKIVE-Concave-Telescope-Photography-Instruments/dp/B0D8ZXKNND
09:31 PM rifraf: aandrew thats cool, but do you have a spinning top and an andriod to test my app on?
09:31 PM aandrew: I don't have a top, but I do have an android phone
09:31 PM Tom_L: that one look ok?
09:31 PM Tom_L: aandrew, what android?
09:31 PM rifraf: tom perfect, take my money and click buy now
09:32 PM rifraf: aandrew good start wanna installapp?
09:32 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/vibesensing0.3.apk
09:32 PM aandrew: um... I have a moto 5g and a samsung something or other
09:33 PM rifraf: try that ^^
09:33 PM aandrew: I honestly don't even know how to install an apk, these are both stock phones
09:33 PM rifraf: on the samsung
09:33 PM rifraf: just say yes to allow unsigned apps
09:33 PM aandrew: oh so just go to that link on the phone itself then?
09:33 PM rifraf: it may not be quite that simple but close
09:33 PM Tom_L: ok will be here tuesday
09:33 PM rifraf: yep
09:34 PM aandrew: ok. I'll have to dig out the phone and likely charge it but I'll give it a go
09:35 PM aandrew: https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/d/buena-park-yamaha-japan-optical-engine/7842408248.html
09:35 PM aandrew: I have no idea what that is but it looks fancy
09:35 PM rifraf: 10 min cad job to make a little surrounding tom, or go find some 2" NB pipe
09:35 PM aandrew: the craigslist market here is *huge* compared to back home
09:35 PM Tom_L: i'll figure that out when the time comes
09:36 PM Tom_L: yours are a slip fit so you can remove the ring once it's spinning right?
09:37 PM rifraf: yep, loose fit, is nice to be able to remove easy
09:37 PM rifraf: or you can just leave there, good when polished brass with your name engraved on it, but to see the app best to remove it
09:38 PM Tom_L: these R&D charges are sure racking up
09:42 PM rifraf: aandrew you iphone user?
09:43 PM Tom_L: your save settings should save them between runs
09:43 PM Tom_L: ie close the app and restart
09:43 PM rifraf: yep, but still wip
09:43 PM Tom_L: just debugging
09:44 PM Tom_L: i was pretty hard on the last guy but ended up with a stellar app
09:44 PM rifraf: its all good feedback
09:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/flexgui/touch-probe3-2.png
09:45 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/flexgui/touch-probe3.png
09:45 PM Tom_L: you drag a widget on and all the support code goes with it to hook to linuxcnc
09:45 PM Tom_L: no coding at all
09:45 PM Tom_L: it's a build your own GUI with no coding
09:46 PM Tom_L: i did all the drill etc ops myself
09:47 PM rifraf: yep look pretty complex
09:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/flexgui/index.html
09:47 PM Tom_L: started from zero to that in about a year
09:49 PM Tom_L: can i get a top with a titanium shaft?
09:49 PM rifraf: yep
09:50 PM Tom_L: the bottom of the info screens doesn't scroll far enough to see the last button
09:50 PM Tom_L: 'watch demo video'
09:50 PM rifraf: hrm, i wonder what the last button is
09:50 PM rifraf: oh
09:50 PM Tom_L: as well as the text on the others
09:51 PM Tom_L: bottom bar gets in the way
09:51 PM rifraf: bugger, is not the right video anyway, have not made one yet
09:51 PM rifraf: but will add some space
09:51 PM Tom_L: ok on the S21 but not on the S25
09:52 PM Tom_L: S21 looks nice as far as screen fit
09:52 PM Tom_L: little clipping on the top still on the main page
09:53 PM rifraf: i need spining top info more tom, go find a small dished onject
09:53 PM Tom_L: tuesday
09:54 PM rifraf: k
09:54 PM rifraf: i have like 36 beer cans here you could use from just a few days
09:55 PM rifraf: aandrew sup? you up for a test?
09:56 PM Tom_L: you're a persisten one you are...
09:56 PM Tom_L: persistent
09:56 PM rifraf: indeed
09:57 PM rifraf: nothin ever got done by just waitin for it to happen
09:58 PM rifraf: gotta redo these last 3 spins agin, same top, fast decay, one graph, you can see the top characteristicts well
10:01 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S25_test1.jpg
10:02 PM rifraf: awesome tom, best result so far
10:03 PM rifraf: stay out of the settings
10:04 PM Tom_L: just setting to brass
10:05 PM rifraf: yep but best to stay out for now, material selection is for when the MOI stuff is impletmented properly, you will get better results by just opening app and using for now
10:06 PM rifraf: you will notice the graph be far more responsive to highs and lows with default settings
10:31 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test4.jpg
10:33 PM rifraf: see how much cleaner the graph is getting, now you have real data
10:34 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test5.jpg
10:34 PM Tom_L: just need a better surface
10:36 PM rifraf: how cool is it to see those kinda graphs eh tom
10:37 PM Tom_L: just can't keep it spinning with what i have here
10:37 PM * rifraf notes "it was about this time that Tom felt the addiction kick in"
10:37 PM Tom_L: no not really
10:37 PM rifraf: lol
10:37 PM Tom_L: just trying to help a bit
10:37 PM rifraf: thats what they all say
10:37 PM rifraf: yep, thanks sir
10:38 PM Tom_L: what causes your graph to look like steps instead of points?
10:38 PM rifraf: you should see the latest graph, wondering if i should filter out a few more high points, wanna see, is for small fast top
10:38 PM rifraf: because of the sample rate
10:38 PM rifraf: i need to analyse many points to pick up the small vibrations
10:39 PM rifraf: so just in steps of 1 hz
10:39 PM rifraf: jumps*
10:39 PM rifraf: i could make it look smoother but thats what it actually is
10:39 PM Tom_L: if mine spun longer it would start to spread more then
10:39 PM rifraf: exactly, like the graphs i showed befor of 10 minutes or more
10:40 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test6.jpg
10:43 PM rifraf: tom i love it, thats what i'm talkin about!
10:45 PM rifraf: study this, is same top spinning 3 times over 15 minutes, 5 min per spin, is a lightweight so some randon spikes to try remove, or maybe not, because is great overall
10:45 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot6.jpg
10:56 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test7.jpg
10:56 PM Tom_L: don't quite get that one
10:56 PM rifraf: yeps thats ok
10:58 PM rifraf: is spinning faster than is logging at that start, there are things called harmonics, and befuse the defualt settings are not set to detect your fast spin is why
10:58 PM Tom_L: why does it jump like that?
10:58 PM Tom_L: ok
10:58 PM Tom_L: they were default settings
10:58 PM Tom_L: i just looked
10:59 PM rifraf: yep cool
10:59 PM rifraf: i have seen a million of these spins tom, since i know yu are testing with fast top can increase default speed next time
11:01 PM rifraf: every graph tells me alot no matter how crazt it looks
11:01 PM rue_mohr: hi
11:01 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test8.jpg
11:01 PM Tom_L: a bit better
11:01 PM rifraf: hello sir rue
11:02 PM rue_mohr: that graph looks good
11:02 PM rifraf: yes yu increased the max Y value, a smart move sir tom
11:02 PM rue_mohr: linear slope
11:02 PM rifraf: see now you are getting it
11:02 PM Tom_L: i just closed and reopened the app
11:02 PM Tom_L: for the defaults
11:02 PM rifraf: ok, always a good move
11:03 PM rifraf: i think the defaults set it to 6000 max in that version if you touch the settings, otherwise is dynamic
11:03 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, you believe this crazy aussie has us spinning tops now?
11:03 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, your border around the chart could have a higher z level :]
11:04 PM rifraf: ok rue, thanks
11:04 PM rue_mohr: I think were all game for fun tom
11:04 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/shot5.jpg
11:04 PM rifraf: you beautiful is that rue
11:04 PM rifraf: how*
11:04 PM rue_mohr: funny, I'd expect linear...
11:05 PM rifraf: nut you are beautiful too
11:05 PM rue_mohr: but yea
11:05 PM rifraf: but*
11:05 PM rifraf: no sur
11:05 PM rifraf: the longer they spin, the slower they lose speed
11:05 PM rue_mohr: higher friction with air I suppose
11:06 PM rue_mohr: you need to ionize it to keep the air from dragging
11:06 PM rue_mohr: might not be good for the phone tho
11:06 PM rifraf: yep i use several advanced ionising solutions
11:07 PM Tom_L: seems the smoother the spin the more erratic the chart gets
11:07 PM rifraf: and you need nice curves to minimise air friction, has been tested extensivly by me
11:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test9.jpg
11:08 PM rifraf: show me what you call erratic
11:08 PM Tom_L: that was a real smooth spin
11:08 PM Tom_L: hardly any wobble
11:08 PM rue_mohr: well I did a bunch of random things today, but yesterday with my list was way more productive
11:09 PM rue_mohr: looks like rain tomorrow
11:09 PM rue_mohr: so likley coding
11:10 PM rifraf: looks like a slow steady start, then getting a bit slow to register well at the lower speeds, reduce min graph to 200 or so if you want for a test
11:10 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what I'd see if I spun one on a piezo element
11:11 PM rifraf: but just do the same dpin fatser, the end not so important, you were getting over 3k spins before
11:11 PM rue_mohr: tommorow would be a good day to make a top
11:11 PM rifraf: rue_mohr why wonder when you can do it now
11:11 PM rifraf: and yes i agree, make a few
11:11 PM rue_mohr: I'm mostly asleep at this moment
11:12 PM rue_mohr: I dont think I have much large diameter material
11:12 PM rue_mohr: and by large I mean 20mm+
11:12 PM rifraf: anything 15mm OD or above will work fine
11:14 PM rue_mohr: I have some aluminum bar I cast, but its not uniform, all sorts of bubbles in it
11:14 PM Tom_L: this one is 30mm
11:15 PM rifraf: 30mm is perfec size
11:16 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, did you try a static charge on one? did it make a difference?
11:16 PM rifraf: not yet rue
11:17 PM rue_mohr: better start cooking supper or its suddenly gonna be 1am and too late to
11:17 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S21_test10.jpg
11:17 PM Tom_L: best time but crazy graph
11:17 PM rue_mohr: oh damn, I tested the serial comm things but never hooked them up to the robot
11:17 PM rue_mohr: damnit, nowonder I'm gettin nowhere
11:18 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, your pulling the strongest peak from the FFT, right?
11:18 PM rifraf: thats still great tom, just visualise the main line
11:18 PM rifraf: rue_mohr many yes and filtering out the lows and highs
11:19 PM Tom_L: ok enough of this for one day
11:20 PM rifraf: no worries, thanks tom
11:21 PM rue_mohr: http://media.ruemohr.org/images/p1340247.jpg
11:21 PM rue_mohr: I got some of this dealt with today
11:21 PM rue_mohr: there is supposed to be a clear table there for taking stuff apart
11:21 PM rifraf: some vfd?
11:21 PM rue_mohr: medical machines
11:22 PM rue_mohr: they only use really expensive parts, and lots of them
11:22 PM rifraf: but spinning tops are cooler
11:22 PM rue_mohr: take a normal pushbutton and gold plate the metal and then make the body from ceramic instead of plastic kinda stuff
11:23 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, do you remember taking cdroms apart?
11:24 PM rifraf: i take an everyday piece of metal and turn it into an amazing physics experiment
11:24 PM rifraf: sure do rue
11:24 PM rue_mohr: do you remember the thing on the spindle motor? that makes the little noise when you shake it?
11:24 PM rue_mohr: its a dynamic balancer rif
11:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S25_test2.jpg
11:25 PM rifraf: cool
11:25 PM Tom_L: S25 this time
11:25 PM rue_mohr: so they can do crazy rpms with disks that aren't weighted properly and still be balanced
11:26 PM rifraf: rue this app is perfect for testing HDD and CDROM speeds
11:26 PM rifraf: Tom_L see the perfect 1 hz steps, thats a perfect result
11:27 PM Tom_L: well that's the best i'm gonna get tonight
11:27 PM rifraf: you did well sir, see its all in the setup
11:28 PM rifraf: and i made the app a bit more tom friendly
11:28 PM rue_mohr: I always seem to lack some modern thing to play along, sort of ironically funny this time
11:29 PM rue_mohr: ugh, my buddies here will be asleep, not a good time to ask for old phones
11:29 PM rifraf: is very sad rue
11:29 PM rue_mohr: I DO have CH32 microcontrollers working tho
11:29 PM rifraf: and even i have at least 4 old android phones that cost $200 or less outright i can test it on
11:30 PM rue_mohr: honestly, if I'd got all that junk to do those things, they would be garbage now anyhow
11:30 PM Tom_L: i just noticed i can enter the dimensions for the top
11:30 PM rifraf: indeed
11:31 PM rifraf: thats how you set the MOI
11:31 PM Tom_L: now just get it to save the parameters
11:31 PM Tom_L: i'd not messed with those for these tests
11:31 PM rifraf: ok , it saves for the session, but they are still not used remember
11:32 PM Tom_L: just testing the data entry
11:32 PM Tom_L: the keypad gets in the way of some unless you scroll first
11:35 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/S25_test3.jpg
11:36 PM rifraf: how heavy is your top tom?
11:36 PM Tom_L: no idea
11:36 PM rifraf: no scales?
11:37 PM rifraf: the settings page should calculate, if you save and go back in currently
11:37 PM Tom_L: main part is 30.19mm x 13.42 and the shaft is 6.4 x 40.83
11:38 PM Tom_L: 92.82 g
11:38 PM Tom_L: MOI 9360
11:38 PM Tom_L: all brass
11:39 PM rifraf: yep spot on, thats a pretty hefty top for a stem that narrow
11:40 PM Tom_L: it was supposed to be thinner on the body but he got carried away on the lathe
11:40 PM Tom_L: i might try cutting a / on the bottom side
11:40 PM rifraf: heh you can always make another to compare
11:41 PM Tom_L: i got some 2.5" brass bar :)
11:41 PM rifraf: around 50 - 60 grams is max easy to spin, my fastest are below 30g
11:42 PM rifraf: bigger gets hard to get the required momentum with fingers
11:42 PM rifraf: but there are always other ways to start, like a dremel etc
11:42 PM Tom_L: i did round the tip a bit
11:42 PM rifraf: you will get holes eaten into your glass lens though :)
11:43 PM Tom_L: it was getting a little flat
11:43 PM rifraf: yep a round tip is good
11:44 PM rifraf: flat means the top got some use, a good thing
11:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rifraf/Top_tip.jpg
11:46 PM rifraf: yep thats just fine
11:47 PM rifraf: pointer just means more friction when you get stuck in same place from digging microholes
11:47 PM rifraf: so rounded works far better in long run
11:48 PM Tom_L: do you use ceramic balls on the tip?
11:48 PM rifraf: i use diamond balls, attificial
11:48 PM rifraf: zircon
11:48 PM Tom_L: superglue them on?
11:48 PM rifraf: in yes
11:49 PM Tom_L: i have some ball bearings i thought about putting on mine
11:49 PM Tom_L: i can get loose ball bearings in bulk
11:49 PM rifraf: you can acetone them out and change to steel or ceramic if you want, got all sortsa balls here
11:49 PM Tom_L: don't recall what size i have on hand
11:50 PM rifraf: 4mm is a great size to start, have tried many smaller and larger
11:51 PM Tom_L: 5/32 i may have some of those
11:51 PM Tom_L: got all sorts of skate bearings
11:51 PM Tom_L: some were $$$$
11:51 PM Tom_L: kid was into inline for a while
11:52 PM rifraf: cool, and a small ball nose endmill to make the hole a perfect fit
11:52 PM Tom_L: got plenty of those
11:57 PM Tom_L: time for bed here