#garfield Logs

Feb 05 2025

08:20 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, do you think rump will really switch the US over to bitcoin as a primary currency?
08:35 AM rue_mohr: aandrew, ?
10:03 AM aandrew: no
10:04 AM aandrew: just like he won't enact real tariffs, he won't "take over" gaza, there won't be billions in savings under his governance, etc., etc., etc.
10:18 AM polprog: this ^
10:19 AM polprog: it all showbusiness under his reign
10:19 AM polprog: the interesting parts are quiet
10:19 AM polprog: I cant imagine him placing these tariffs on china for example, musk would be fucked with battery prices
10:50 AM aandrew: rue_mohr: https://www.printables.com/model/48505-mantis-clamp you might like that
10:50 AM aandrew: closing the de minima or whatever it's called loophole for duties on low value items is going to be interesting
11:43 AM Tom_L: no
03:27 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:22 PM rifraf: got some bell ville washers Tom_L , alot stronger than i thought they might be
06:27 PM Tom_L: yeah they're pretty tough
06:29 PM rifraf: gonna take some effort to compress with air, but in the mt2 collet is holding a 1/4" bar ok, if i push hard with quite some force the stock releases and slides\
06:30 PM Tom_L: maybe too much for your application
06:31 PM Tom_L: they use fair size cylinders for those on tool holders
06:32 PM rifraf: yeah will see, i only got 2 bellevilles of the size for the real unit, got a couple if 5mm music wire strings coming as well, between the lot can hopefully work out which way to go
06:32 PM Tom_L: or increase the leverage
06:32 PM Tom_L: 5mm will be pretty stout
06:33 PM rifraf: yep, a few hundred newtons of force to compress
06:33 PM rifraf: am hoping 2 x 32mm cylinders will mage
06:33 PM rifraf: manage
06:33 PM Tom_L: maybe
06:35 PM Tom_L: how much travel does it need? not very much i would think
06:35 PM rifraf: nearly 500N per cylinder at 6 Bar, and will start with 5:1 leverage, so 5kN, or aroung 500kg of force
06:36 PM rifraf: travel in the mm, got 30mm stroke cylinders, 25mm will be effective, so with 5:1 will move shaft 5mm, more than enough
06:38 PM rifraf: 500kg should be way more than enough to hold a bar in 5C collet, seems too much, do should not have to go near my extremes i hope
06:38 PM rifraf: https://www.festo.com/au/en/a/5249368/?q=dsnu-32-30%7E%3AsortByCoreRangeAndNewProduct
06:38 PM rifraf: hopefully that link works
06:39 PM Tom_L: yup
06:39 PM rifraf: gonna chop off the thread at the rear
06:39 PM rifraf: hold them at the front, to keep better alingment
06:40 PM rifraf: mount with these https://www.festo.com/au/en/a/539924/
06:41 PM Tom_L: how much are those cylinders?
06:41 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, cute
06:41 PM rifraf: around $40 AUD for clones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799776155.html
06:41 PM rifraf: including del.
06:42 PM rifraf: the dsnu-40 and about start getting expensive, but can do an upgrade if needed
06:43 PM Tom_L: $14 us
06:43 PM rifraf: yep not bad eh
06:44 PM rifraf: i have used these before, got some dsnu-20-100, buy stroke a bit long to fit in this project
06:44 PM rifraf: about 1/3 of actual festo price
06:50 PM rue_mohr: you know, big strong leaky air cylinders are easy to make
06:50 PM rifraf: yes rue
06:51 PM rifraf: but little strong cheap non leaky cylinders are alot less drama
06:51 PM rue_mohr: their all 32mm
06:51 PM rifraf: especially with many SMC and Festo clones out there
06:52 PM rue_mohr: I did a 8mm one, 10mm stroke
06:52 PM rifraf: that link is 32mm, look at festo link, search dnsu-63 , thats latgest in that range
06:52 PM rue_mohr: stupid strong
06:52 PM rue_mohr: sory
06:52 PM rue_mohr: I did a 80mm one, 10mm stroke
06:52 PM rue_mohr: :] that zero is important
06:52 PM rifraf: nice, the pressure the same regardless of stoke, 80mm quite a bit
06:53 PM rifraf: indeed
06:53 PM rue_mohr: yea
06:53 PM rue_mohr: It was diaphram based, so it didn't even leak
06:55 PM rifraf: we used lots of smaller stuff fo making robots and automation, even the 12mm cylinders can do a fair bit, but one you get over 25mm, gets exponentionaly syronger, what you move with 80mm cylinder?
06:55 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, at 1:1 with the air supply you have, what area would you need?
06:56 PM rue_mohr: the one I made was too strong, I didn't end up using it
06:56 PM rifraf: cylinder area?
06:56 PM rue_mohr: yea, ok
06:56 PM rue_mohr: whats your pressure supply?
06:56 PM rifraf: around 32mm x pi i hope
06:56 PM rue_mohr: 2kpa?
06:57 PM rifraf: i have crappy noiy compressor, but it can do 120psi
06:57 PM rue_mohr: 20psi?
06:57 PM rue_mohr: ok 120psi
06:57 PM rifraf: that around 8 bar, only need 6
06:57 PM rue_mohr: and what force do you need?
06:57 PM rifraf: i want to buy a tiny quiet compressor
06:57 PM Tom_L: call it 90 to be fair with the compressor
06:57 PM rue_mohr: 90 psi
06:57 PM rue_mohr: and what force do you need?
06:57 PM rue_mohr: 5000N?
06:57 PM rifraf: well i should get arount 4kN + with my plans
06:57 PM Tom_L: mine does 170psi
06:57 PM rue_mohr: ok 4000N
06:58 PM rue_mohr: 120psi, 4000N
06:58 PM rifraf: yeah 5000N in a perfect world, but 4000 will be realistic
06:58 PM rue_mohr: ok 5000N, 90 psi
06:58 PM rue_mohr: ok 5000N, 620.5kps
06:58 PM rue_mohr: ok 5000N, 620.5kpa
06:58 PM rifraf: what you think? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/134953481852
06:59 PM rifraf: i could buy now and be done with it
06:59 PM rue_mohr: you need 80.5 cm ^2
06:59 PM rifraf: 15L better than alot of the 6L tiny ones
06:59 PM Tom_L: oil free probably won't live long
06:59 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/tmp# circle -a 80.5
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Radius is : 5.062010
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Diameter is: 10.124021
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Circumfrence is : 31.805548
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Area is : 80.500008
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Sphere area: 322.000031
06:59 PM rue_mohr: Sphere volume: 543.322510
06:59 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/tmp#
06:59 PM rue_mohr: so you need a 10cm dia cylinder
06:59 PM rue_mohr: easy
06:59 PM rifraf: you think i can use 10mm ID cylinders?
07:00 PM rifraf: 10cm ?
07:00 PM rue_mohr: at 90psi thats 5kn
07:00 PM rue_mohr: at 90psi thats 5kN
07:00 PM rifraf: no way, see4ms too much
07:00 PM rifraf: i have 2 x 32mm
07:00 PM rifraf: depends of the cylinder size, the force
07:00 PM rue_mohr: 100mm
07:00 PM rue_mohr: 100mm cylinder
07:00 PM rue_mohr: 90 psi, 5kN
07:00 PM rifraf: 90 psi can move shitloads with a large enough cylinder
07:01 PM rue_mohr: 100mm dia
07:01 PM rifraf: no way
07:01 PM rue_mohr: look
07:01 PM rue_mohr: kpa is N/m^2
07:01 PM rifraf: i have no room, and the cost would justify a haudralic chuck
07:02 PM rue_mohr: 90psi is zippo:/tmp# units 90psi kpa
07:02 PM rue_mohr: * 620.52816
07:02 PM rue_mohr: 620.5kpa
07:02 PM rifraf: the dsnu-32 has a force of ~480|N
07:02 PM rifraf: i have 2 of them = 960N
07:02 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/tmp# units 5000N/620.5kpa cm^2
07:02 PM rue_mohr: * 80.580177
07:02 PM rue_mohr: / 0.01241
07:02 PM rue_mohr: take 5kN and divide by 620kpa, you get 80.5cm^2
07:03 PM rifraf: i am using 5:1 leverage, = 4.8kN
07:03 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/tmp# circle -a 80.5
07:03 PM rue_mohr: Radius is : 5.062010
07:03 PM rue_mohr: Diameter is: 10.124021
07:03 PM rue_mohr: Circumfrence is : 31.805548
07:03 PM rue_mohr: Area is : 80.500008
07:03 PM rue_mohr: a circle with an area of 80.5cm^2 has a dia of 10.12cm
07:03 PM rifraf: oah\
07:04 PM rifraf: ah, ok then so 32mm cylinders should work?
07:04 PM rifraf: do you trust that compessor link?
07:04 PM Tom_L: oilless won't last near as long
07:05 PM rifraf: whisper quiet 61 DBA
07:05 PM rifraf: ya think? but its the new thing
07:06 PM Tom_L: small job sites use similar
07:06 PM Tom_L: roofers etc
07:06 PM rifraf: have not had a pancake one before, but the other option is 1/2 the power and only 6L tank
07:07 PM rifraf: this one i could buy local https://www.bunnings.com.au/aeg-0-75hp-6l-silent-drive-air-compressor-ac756s_p0278851
07:08 PM rue_mohr: no
07:08 PM rue_mohr: you need 100mm
07:08 PM rue_mohr: thats in cm
07:08 PM rifraf: it says 75dB , bit more believebale
07:08 PM rifraf: no rue
07:08 PM rifraf: 100cm will move a car
07:08 PM rue_mohr: 5kN
07:08 PM rue_mohr: no 100mm
07:08 PM rue_mohr: 10cm
07:09 PM rue_mohr: dia
07:09 PM rifraf: start here, 32mm cylinder, 482.5 N https://www.festo.com/au/en/a/5249368/?q=dsnu-32-30%7E%3AsortByCoreRangeAndNewProduct
07:09 PM rue_mohr: I wish I could give you a donut culinder design
07:09 PM rifraf: yes but i am using 5:1 leverage, and 2 cylinders, so just need 500N
07:09 PM Tom_L: dunno much about those little cmpressors. mine is 5hp 80gal
07:10 PM rifraf: yeah i wish you could
07:10 PM rue_mohr: you wouldn't need to 1:1 would do
07:10 PM rue_mohr: you could have them made in the next 5 hours
07:10 PM rifraf: but 100mm wide cylinders bigger than headstock
07:10 PM rifraf: and using 1 would suck, 2 evens up the forces on each side of slipring
07:10 PM rue_mohr: if they were donut that would be perfect
07:10 PM rifraf: i wish you would should me other ways to lever this shaft
07:12 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, could a person machine a donut cylinder?
07:12 PM rifraf: the slipring should work, if it touches the lever accidently while should slip, will save alot of damage
07:12 PM Tom_L: if a person was so enclined
07:12 PM rue_mohr: like a washer with a U channel in it, that a pile thats the piston fits in
07:12 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, car slutch
07:12 PM rue_mohr: clutch
07:13 PM rifraf: rue_mohr you can machine alot of things if you really want to
07:13 PM rue_mohr: oh I'm gonna go to just randomly mashing the keyboards, its closer
07:13 PM rifraf: did think clutch early on\
07:13 PM Tom_L: https://shop.wildgoosefilling.com/products/pancake-cylinder?variant=47156581466431&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gQT=1
07:13 PM rifraf: but didn't see a suitable example that would work
07:13 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, auto wrecker might just have something that would work
07:14 PM rifraf: needs to be hollow though Tom_L
07:14 PM rifraf: heh bit late, i have machined most parts now
07:15 PM rifraf: and what nice parts they are
07:15 PM rifraf: gonna buy ally for the headstock tomorrow so i can start machining it, bearings will be here next week am sure
07:16 PM rue_mohr: was learning the tractor at work today for snow clearing
07:16 PM rifraf: cool, cannot imagine, still a sweatbox here
07:17 PM Tom_L: Au ever get snow?
07:17 PM rifraf: rue_mohr i wanna see your injection molder
07:17 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, ugh
07:17 PM rifraf: Tom_L i have seen it once, up the mountain, about 6 hours south
07:17 PM rue_mohr: I'm not proud of it
07:18 PM rifraf: but yes, if you want to ski we have snow a few months of the year down south
07:18 PM rifraf: rue_mohr let me learn from what didn't work
07:18 PM rifraf: anout to geta bunch of 25mm stell plates cut for the clamping levr
07:18 PM Tom_L: took a couple trys on the aluminum molds
07:19 PM rifraf: hi yes, am very interested to see what you did injection molding aluminium into steel mold, thats intrigues me
07:19 PM rue_mohr: huh, cant find a folder for it
07:19 PM Tom_L: pour
07:19 PM rifraf: damn
07:20 PM rifraf: you never said you were making this, i told you some years back i got the big screw auger thing for feeding into nozzlefor
07:21 PM rifraf: still in the box :/ but am gonna use it, go a 3kW motor to drive the screw with amazing gearing , forget what it was
07:22 PM Tom_L: gonna go ass plant a while.. fighting a cold
07:25 PM rifraf: rue_mohr no injection molding stuff to show? :(
07:26 PM rifraf: i am getting like 500:1 leverage in the last few mm of stroke on this clamp design
07:27 PM rifraf: should produce around 40kN with even a modest cylinder, like a 50mm cylinder
07:29 PM rue_mohr: I will have to spend a few hours and find the photos
07:30 PM rue_mohr: I'm falling asleep right now after work
07:30 PM rue_mohr: cat parked itself on me
07:30 PM rifraf: clamp open https://imgur.com/a/EV67ZqS
07:31 PM rue_mohr: hu?
07:31 PM rifraf: clamp closed https://imgur.com/a/TLV3aFU
07:31 PM rifraf: the silver 50mm plates will be a mould
07:31 PM rue_mohr: what is the clamp for?
07:31 PM rue_mohr: oh
07:31 PM rue_mohr: I just used a C clam
07:32 PM rifraf: the dark parts are all 25mm thick plate
07:32 PM rue_mohr: p
07:32 PM rifraf: to hold the mold together
07:32 PM rifraf: no flashing
07:32 PM rue_mohr: have you seen the youtube videos of the hand injectors that look like a drillpress?
07:32 PM rifraf: yep
07:32 PM rue_mohr: thats kinda what I made
07:33 PM rifraf: ok, have you seen the precious plastic designs?
07:33 PM rifraf: its called something else now
07:33 PM rue_mohr: for heat, I wrapped a stove element around it
07:33 PM rue_mohr: no
07:33 PM rifraf: ok, i am aiming more for a compact real injection molder, again using air though instead of oil pressure
07:34 PM rifraf: will try 3 stage heater
07:34 PM rifraf: the screw is around 600mm long i think, and about 40mm OD, is a nice screw
07:34 PM rifraf: tapers to force plastic into nozzle
07:34 PM rue_mohr: preheated mold
07:35 PM rue_mohr: was where I left off
07:35 PM rue_mohr: you have to have the mold at just the right temp
07:35 PM rifraf: ok, you need to dig it out this weekend
07:35 PM rifraf: what were you trying to mkae?
07:35 PM rue_mohr: I was just trying to do it
07:36 PM rifraf: were you realy trying to injection mold molten aluminium?
07:36 PM rue_mohr: I wanted to piggback the projects and make tom christmas gifts for his family, so we did a raindeer
07:36 PM rifraf: ah yes i saw the mold
07:36 PM rue_mohr: I do, just gravity with the alimunum
07:36 PM rifraf: but am so much more excited to see the process, regardless of results
07:36 PM rue_mohr: just pour into mold, maybe give it a tap, wait, release
07:36 PM rue_mohr: hmm, I cant film the aluminum without a helper
07:37 PM rue_mohr: and I dont have any here
07:37 PM rifraf: the injection molder is like my major project, apart from Foxy, with her i must admit defeat by the billionaires
07:38 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, do you know what year we did the mold?
07:38 PM rue_mohr: the raindeer?
07:39 PM rifraf: 2021
07:41 PM rifraf: maybe a bit later, i saw the pics the other day
07:46 PM rifraf: did you make a raindeer?
07:47 PM rifraf: was it like spinning the mold with the molten aluminium?
07:47 PM rifraf: i saw some jewelry getting cast like that
07:48 PM rifraf: how about this one, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rue/reindeer/reindeer14.jpg
07:50 PM rifraf: ok that looks like ally mold, so i guess you were doin plastic, but this one looks like steel http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A3/Mold13.jpg
07:50 PM rifraf: tom said something about making aluminium parts
08:50 PM Tom_L: i don't remember when
08:51 PM Tom_L: the reindeer was for plastic and the other was for aluminum casting
08:52 PM Tom_L: pics are dated 2019
09:10 PM rue_mohr: 2019, lets try that
09:15 PM rue_mohr: 2019 I started the big cnc
09:15 PM rue_mohr: shame
09:18 PM rue_mohr: oh 2019 I have the trigger castings
09:20 PM rue_mohr: seans bother was drying of what he has now
09:24 PM rue_mohr: I redid the lining on the smelter
09:25 PM rue_mohr: I built the battery powered yard cart for ma
09:25 PM rue_mohr: I started the filter profiler, another project not done yet
09:27 PM rue_mohr: oh I cast the disc for the disc sander
09:28 PM rue_mohr: cast in the posts for the driveway pillars
09:30 PM rue_mohr: oh I built the shelter outside the shop
09:33 PM rue_mohr: saw one of family friends for one of the last times
09:33 PM rue_mohr: I got the tektronix scope
09:38 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/dieCastAlum/slide.htm
09:39 PM rue_mohr: after a few fails, a thermal relief was added
09:41 PM rue_mohr: cant leave the ladel in the alumuiuxn
09:42 PM rue_mohr: the last image before the cycle is the new mold
09:42 PM rue_mohr: we changed the end it comes in from
09:42 PM rue_mohr: and added more thermal relief
10:26 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, what if we used a microstepping motor driver to drive a transformer
10:26 PM rue_shop2: A4988
10:27 PM rue_shop2: we can lie to it about the actual current
11:37 PM rifraf: cool pics rue, thanks, looks like you got there in the end,
11:37 PM rue_mohr: yup
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I have a bucket of unprocessed ones for stock
11:38 PM rifraf: what do you make with them?
11:39 PM rue_mohr: paint sprayers
11:39 PM rue_mohr: http://www.ruemohr.org
11:39 PM rifraf: ah yes, i saw something like that, for paint cans
11:39 PM rue_mohr: its easier than machining them
11:39 PM rue_mohr: and recycling
11:41 PM rifraf: when would you need to use a spray can like that?
11:41 PM rue_mohr: loggers do all the time
11:41 PM rue_mohr: when their grading logs
11:41 PM rifraf: more reach or?
11:41 PM rue_mohr: they have to get up and down and in between logs
11:42 PM rue_mohr: do you wanna be my Oz production plant?
11:42 PM rifraf: nice, is your design?
11:42 PM rue_mohr: sort of, sort of not
11:42 PM rue_mohr: the long story is that a LOOOONG time ago I made one for my uncle,
11:43 PM rue_mohr: sometime after that a not-tooo-local guy started producing them for the log sorts, going up and down the BC coast in a camper van selling and servicing them
11:43 PM rue_mohr: he was reited and died one day
11:43 PM rifraf: ah
11:43 PM rue_mohr: the loggers needed repairs and more new units
11:43 PM rue_mohr: I passed up the request
11:44 PM rue_mohr: they had someone try to make them, they severly simplified the design and the loggers hated the prototypes
11:44 PM rue_mohr: a year later one of my buddies says "lets do it"
11:45 PM rue_mohr: we sat down and completely reverse engineered the sample the loggers gave us
11:45 PM rue_mohr: we made a prototype and they loved it
11:45 PM rifraf: awesome
11:45 PM rue_mohr: went into production with 3 of us,
11:46 PM rue_mohr: the guy who helped design didn't want to do production, so we set up a royalty for him
11:46 PM rue_mohr: one of the guys has a mental issue, and working with us drove him ballistic and he left
11:46 PM rue_mohr: my last buddy, who was just about doing everything, came down with ALS
11:47 PM rue_mohr: in one year he went from fine to completely crippled with no muscles
11:47 PM rue_mohr: so now its just me
11:47 PM rue_mohr: and I'm having issues getting stuff done
11:48 PM rue_mohr: I have an order for 4 and its been like 3 months
11:48 PM rue_mohr: the stock ran down so I cant just bang them togethor
11:49 PM rue_mohr: usually we keep the main modules ready, and custom assemble for length
11:49 PM rue_mohr: I'm even out of a few of the components
11:49 PM rue_mohr: like the latches