#garfield Logs

Jan 31 2019

12:56 AM rue_mohr: they dont have enough area and their too cold
01:00 AM rue_mohr: Jymmm, if I have a tank, with an intake and an output, the pressure in the tank is the air volume that went in, minus the air volume that came out, right?
01:02 AM Jymmm: rue_mohr: I realize they'll be cold, at least at first.
01:02 AM rue_mohr: Jymmm, if I have a tank, with an intake and an output, the pressure in the tank is the air volume that went in, minus the air volume that came out, right?
01:03 AM Jymmm: rue_mohr: The tank "system" is an unsealed, so no pressure build up
01:03 AM rue_mohr: I'm talking unrelated
01:03 AM Jymmm: then I'm not sure what you are spekaing of =)
01:03 AM rue_mohr: just the concept that the difference in the volume of air going in and out of a tank determines the pressure in the tank
01:04 AM Jymmm: the tansks would be filled with water
01:04 AM rue_mohr: I just want to make sure you have a mental picture of an tank, where the pressure is determined by the difference in volume of material going in and out of it
01:04 AM rue_mohr: not related to your project
01:04 AM rue_mohr: can you see that the pressure is realted to the difference?
01:05 AM Jymmm: sure
01:05 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:05 AM rue_mohr: haet and energy work the same way
01:05 AM Jymmm: the tanks are just to absorb the heat as quickly as possible on the comfined space of a 55gal drum
01:05 AM Jymmm: in*
01:06 AM rue_mohr: if the energy going into something is more than the energy comming out, then the thing will accumulate heat
01:06 AM rue_mohr: can you see how thats realted to the flow/pressure of the tank I was just talking about
01:06 AM Jymmm: sure, and the tanks would bsorb the heat and transfer it to a another tank full of wax tubes
01:07 AM rue_mohr: stop related this to your heater
01:07 AM Jymmm: ok
01:08 AM rue_mohr: if I have 1 watt going into a peice of metal, and 1.1w comming out, what does its temperature do?
01:08 AM Jymmm: rise
01:09 AM rue_mohr: no.
01:09 AM Jymmm: how you got an extra 0.1W is impressive though ;)
01:09 AM rue_mohr: your not getting it....
01:10 AM Jymmm: Ok, what is the point you are trying to make?
01:11 AM rue_mohr: I'm trying to explain a concept your not grasping, thats important to what your trying to make
01:13 AM Jymmm: ok, so what am I just not getting?
01:14 AM rue_mohr: 8-|
01:14 AM rue_mohr: make something, improve it, learn.
01:15 AM rue_mohr: My language is apparently incompatible....
01:15 AM Jymmm: I tried that 5 times about a year ago, it didn't go so well.
01:15 AM Jymmm: various different reasons, but still
01:15 AM rue_mohr: you have to understand the successes and failures of a project, learn and improve
01:16 AM rue_mohr: dont just restart everything every time
01:17 AM Jymmm: Right now, I'm focusing on getting from 1200F to ~140F in a confined space, or this just won't work.
01:17 AM Jymmm: I dont even know if it's even possible
01:19 AM rue_mohr: it would help if you understood how heat and energy transfer are realted
01:20 AM Jymmm: true
01:32 AM Jymmm: super heated steam (unrelated) but cool... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8InpXBbjtPU
12:46 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: Since I'm not getting what you are trying to convey, maybe you could link me to a video or wiki article and I could try and run with it?
06:23 PM rue_mohr: dont know of any that make sense
06:23 PM rue_mohr: part of why it took me so long
08:02 PM zhanx: Evening
09:07 PM Tom_L: what you been up to z?
09:07 PM zhanx: kids, snow, work
09:07 PM zhanx: took today off
09:07 PM zhanx: needed a break
09:07 PM Tom_L: how's work goin?
09:08 PM zhanx: like normal
09:08 PM zhanx: with this snow its sucked
09:09 PM zhanx: snow banks are over 9' in the drive
09:09 PM Tom_L: nice
09:09 PM zhanx: I had to jump off the exploder and drive it over them to make more room
09:09 PM zhanx: which was fun
09:09 PM rue_mohr: wow
09:10 PM Tom_L: are your roads paved where you are?
09:10 PM Tom_L: or county dirt road
09:10 PM zhanx: wife was not happy i had the 5 year in the front seat
09:10 PM rue_mohr: no snow here yet, so no water on the mountian for this summer
09:10 PM zhanx: combo Tom_L
09:10 PM Tom_L: we haven't been gettin much snow last few years
09:10 PM zhanx: my drive is gravel with a paved road but its 50/50 in the area
09:11 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, been working on the lab, for yeast and temp controls etc. tying off loose projects again
09:12 PM zhanx: next i need to finish the garden irrigation system and then back to robotics
09:14 PM zhanx: Tom_L, been so cold etc, I have had to plug in the cars
09:15 PM Tom_L: block heaters or oil?
09:15 PM zhanx: block on the wife's, oil on mine
09:15 PM zhanx: with a battery tender on both
09:16 PM furrywolf: I had a magnetic oil pan heater. Someone stole it. Yay texas.
09:16 PM zhanx: wife drove off twice this week still plugged in
09:16 PM furrywolf: also stole my jumper cables and winch remote
09:16 PM rue_mohr: 120V relay disenguages starter when powered
09:17 PM rue_mohr: the big purple wire
09:17 PM furrywolf: turned out I didn't need it anyway, my truck starts just fine at -14F...
09:17 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, it was prewired wrong and I am not wiring it right in the dark
09:17 PM furrywolf: that was a fun night sleeping in the back of it.
09:18 PM zhanx: furrywolf, i live on the side of a mountain, the winds are what get it
09:20 PM zhanx: right now its only -4 out
09:20 PM zhanx: but you can hear the wind screaming etc
09:21 PM zhanx: question
09:22 PM zhanx: how fast can a encoder be read? I am working on a centrifuge and would like rpms, it should clock in over 1000 rpms to 4000 rpms
09:22 PM Tom_L: depends on the encoder resolution
09:22 PM zhanx: thinking one line on it
09:23 PM Tom_L: some have 'high speed' functions
09:23 PM Tom_L: to where once they reach a certain speed the controller counts index pulses i believe
09:23 PM Tom_L: or something like that
09:24 PM zhanx: k, i am using an avr to count them
09:24 PM zhanx: since i got a bunch of arduino's to use
09:30 PM rue_bed: I have my spindle controller, uses a 2 lobe interupter
09:30 PM rue_bed: does rpm regulation from like 200 to 24000 rpm
09:31 PM rue_bed: it emulates a LM5....
09:32 PM rue_bed: er LM2907
09:32 PM rue_bed: https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/18/0602.LM2907_2D00_tachometer_2D00_circuit.jpg
09:33 PM rue_bed: I use a t13
09:33 PM rue_bed: you could use my source etc, but I suspect your gonna remake it all yourself...
09:34 PM rue_bed: I do a proportionate closed loop and output pwm for a buck power stage
09:34 PM zhanx: i don't want to remake it all
09:35 PM rue_bed: mhm
09:35 PM zhanx: i want it done
09:35 PM * rue_bed looks at z's printer
09:35 PM rue_bed: mhm
09:35 PM zhanx: printing nicely
09:35 PM zhanx: oh yea pics
09:35 PM rue_bed: so, the interrupter is made for an 8mm shaft
09:35 PM rue_bed: want to seeeeeee?
09:36 PM zhanx: yes
09:36 PM rue_bed: thingiverse
09:36 PM zhanx: k
09:36 PM rue_bed: ruenahcmohr interrupter
09:36 PM rue_bed: I posted a 2 and 3 lobe
09:37 PM zhanx: not comming up
09:37 PM rue_bed: hmm
09:37 PM rue_bed: I only have a few things
09:37 PM zhanx: its thingiverse
09:37 PM zhanx: its broken
09:37 PM rue_bed: look for "yet another 80mm fan grille"
09:38 PM rue_bed: that will take you to me
09:38 PM rue_bed: then go to my things, and look for interrupter
09:39 PM rue_bed: ugh, well atealst I want to be awake
09:39 PM zhanx: i see the one lobe, but not the rest, the one lobe should be fine
09:41 PM rue_bed: your looking it up by me?
09:41 PM rue_bed: I cant thiniverse on this computer
09:41 PM zhanx: now it loaded, its thingiverse being dumb
09:41 PM rue_bed: mhm
09:42 PM zhanx: grabbing the 2 lobe, i don't see a 3 lobe and the page is done
09:42 PM zhanx: thingiverse does that load, jump back to the last loaded, scroll, it jumps again
09:43 PM rue_bed: yea you have to use relative scrolling
09:43 PM rue_bed: not absolute
09:43 PM rue_bed: aka, cant grab the bar
09:43 PM zhanx: either way i got the 2 lobe i need
09:43 PM rue_bed: it helps that they DELETED THE FREAKING UP AND DOWN ARROWS OFF MODERN SCROLL BARS
09:43 PM rue_bed: 2 lobe is the one I use
09:43 PM zhanx: how balanced was that?
09:44 PM rue_bed: the code uses all 4 edges
09:44 PM rue_bed: it was fine
09:44 PM rue_bed: I usually run 10000+
09:46 PM zhanx: way higher than i need
09:46 PM rue_bed: hmm, guess I need to post the code
09:47 PM rue_bed: and a schematic
09:47 PM furrywolf: I despise websites that mess with scrolling.
09:47 PM rue_bed: you have an opto you can use?
09:47 PM rue_bed: furrywolf, all those infinite auto-loaders eh?
09:48 PM rue_bed: remember before that, and blogs would try to load everyting?
09:49 PM furrywolf: a lot of news sites these days try to load infinitely many articles if you dare to try scrolling down with the scroll bar.
09:55 PM Tom_L: zhanx, do you need fwd and rev on the encoder?
09:55 PM zhanx: nope
09:55 PM Tom_L: then 1 interrupt will do
09:55 PM zhanx: using it to seperate the yeast and layers
09:56 PM Tom_L: you're not using those i cut are you?
09:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/atmega328/PCINT0/quadrature/
09:57 PM zhanx: not for this
09:57 PM Tom_L: there's quadrature
09:57 PM Tom_L: just use half of it
09:57 PM zhanx: k
10:00 PM zhanx: Tom_L, really all i need to do is sustain 1000-1400 rpms to separate the layers over 4 hours
10:00 PM zhanx: but i want to be able to dial it in
10:00 PM Tom_L: yeah i misread that the first time
10:00 PM Tom_L: that should be easy
10:00 PM Tom_L: i read 4000
10:01 PM Tom_L: tired..
10:01 PM zhanx: only reason for the variation is yeast size vs waste
10:02 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/morfiles/programming/c/avr/tiny13/spindleController2# ls -1
10:02 PM rue_mohr: avrcommon.h
10:02 PM rue_mohr: main.c
10:02 PM rue_mohr: main.h
10:02 PM rue_mohr: makefile
10:02 PM rue_mohr: readme.txt
10:03 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, do you have a tiny13?
10:05 PM zhanx: no
10:05 PM zhanx: well maybe, thinking no
10:05 PM Tom_L: you could do that with a 10
10:05 PM Tom_L: i bet
10:05 PM rue_mohr: output pwm, input adc, input interrupter
10:06 PM zhanx: i have an 85 for sure
10:06 PM rue_mohr: its written for a 13
10:06 PM rue_mohr: the timer code might need adjustment
10:06 PM zhanx: k
10:09 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/tiny13/spindleController2/
10:09 PM rue_mohr: tell me what you need to know
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB0 (OCRA) pwm out
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB1 (OCRB INT0) shaft tach. (2 pulses/rev)
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB2 (ADC1) Alarm
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB3 (ADC3)
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB4 (ADC2) Analog control voltage in
10:10 PM rue_mohr: PB5 (ADC0 RESET)
10:10 PM rue_mohr: alarm isn't implemented :/
10:11 PM rue_mohr: I meant to set it up as something that would halt the machine
10:12 PM zhanx: rue, let me find what chips i have, then compare datasheets, i can change the code i need to
10:13 PM zhanx: at least it saves me an arduino board for later
10:14 PM zhanx: then some quick coding for buttons to change rpms and its done
10:14 PM rue_mohr: why buttons?
10:14 PM rue_mohr: that code is pretty sensitive :)
10:15 PM zhanx: on the fly change?
10:15 PM zhanx: up 10 rpms or down 10
10:15 PM rue_mohr: I used adc, you just put a pot on it and its good
10:15 PM rue_mohr: you CAN change it on the fly
10:16 PM rue_mohr: 1023 steps from 500 to 10000 rpm, says the doc, which is odd
10:16 PM rue_mohr: cause I do more
10:16 PM zhanx: i missed the pot on the wiring diagram
10:16 PM zhanx: never mind
10:16 PM rue_mohr: PB4 (ADC2) Analog control voltage in
10:17 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, trust me using it
10:17 PM zhanx: i don't want to have to recreate the wheel
10:18 PM rue_mohr: so, take the pwm to a fet in an smps buck converter config
10:18 PM zhanx: you coded it, it works, just use it
10:19 PM rue_mohr: you can cheat and switch the - of the circuit
10:19 PM rue_mohr: hmm
10:20 PM rue_mohr: mmm I'll draw it...
10:20 PM zhanx: k
10:21 PM zhanx: really rue, i want a pot, a digital read out and that is it
10:21 PM zhanx: timers are later
10:22 PM rue_mohr: fer readout, I'd throw in something independent
10:22 PM rue_mohr: there are some RPM meters from china
10:22 PM rue_mohr: 4 digit led
10:23 PM Tom_L: i used a bicycle spedo on my anemometer
10:23 PM rue_mohr: how did you calibrate it!?
10:23 PM rue_mohr: :/ took it for a drive?
10:23 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now
10:24 PM Tom_L: probably
10:24 PM rue_mohr: heh
10:24 PM rue_mohr: did it have a calibration factor?
10:24 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/anemom.jpg
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/anemom5.jpg
10:25 PM rue_mohr: and I should set Z up with my ultra-highspeed fet driver...
10:31 PM Tom_L: dunno why but i've been watching alot of engineering shows lately
10:31 PM ffurrywol is now known as furrywolf
10:38 PM rue_mohr: sometimes there is no get-up-and-go
10:40 PM Tom_L: mine done got up and went
11:03 PM zhanx: mine done got up and sat down
11:47 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/tiny13/spindleController2/p1110153.jpg
11:47 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, ^^ the power circuit
11:47 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/tiny13/spindleController2/p1110154.jpg
11:48 PM rue_mohr: ^^ the fet driver, the input is on the left and the right outputs to the FET
11:48 PM rue_mohr: that driver is crazy good
11:48 PM rue_mohr: er, heh, hmm I'm not sure if its the right polarity for that code tho :D
11:49 PM rue_mohr: I think so
11:49 PM rue_mohr: my drivers usually invert